PB Minutes 5-13-08

Minutes

Meeting of the Planning Board

Regular Session

Village/Town of Mount Kisco

Tuesday, May 13, 2008

Meeting called to order at 9:00 PM at the Municipal Building Mount Kisco, New York.

Members Present: Chairman Joseph Cosentino

Vice Chairman Anthony Sturniolo

Doug Hertz

Ralph Vigliotti

Joseph Morreale

Members Absent: Stanley Bernstein

Sol Gibbons

Staff Present: Nanette Bourne

Anthony Oliveri

Whitney Singleton

Conceptual Applications:

Lexington Avenue Gym

342 Lexington Avenue

PB2008-09

Present:

Louis Loria, AIA, Atmosphere Design Group

Perry Verrone, Owner, Lexington Avenue Gym

Louis Loria: 342 Lexington Avenue is a building that recently had a fire and is in pretty bad shape. Right now there is just one occupant in the basement, a printer, and the building is not habitable for any other occupants right now. There are no lines on the pavements for the current parking that is there, it is just a blank macadam property line with no indication of how many spots are usable and effective. Because Perry's gym is a very specific type, one on one contact with personal trainers and clientele, we spoke to Mr. Cassidy about it and it's the right use for that area. We've outlined a parking plan on site plan that shows that the parking requirements are adequate for the use.

Chairman Cosentino: Because we need to figure out adequate parking for the complete building, what else is in the business?

Louis Loria: Lexington Avenue Gym is going to take the entire first and second floor and build out their space. We had planned on demo, but nature did that for us. It is now pretty much demolished inside. There will be a total of 12 trainers during peak operation of the business.

Chairman Cosentino: How many square feet do you presently have?

Perry Verrone: 2,400.

Chairman Cosentino: How many trainers do you have now?

Perry Verrone: At peak we have seven.

Chairman Cosentino: Now, you're going to how many square feet?

Perry Verrone: Almost 10,000.

Chairman Cosentino: And how many trainers will you have?

Perry Verrone: We'd like to have 12.

Chairman Cosentino: So that's 24 people, and there are 27 parking spaces.

Nanette Bourne: You have seven trainers in 2,200 square feet, and you want to get 12 trainers in 10,000 square feet?

Louis Loria: Right now it's incredibly tight, and they need more space. It's not the kind of training that you can do is 50 square feet. You really need to move around the whole facility.

Nanette Bourne: The code requires one space for each staff member and one space for every two clients at peak utilization.

Louis Loria: Then they have additional two parking spaces for support staff, and then there are three accessory offices approximately 600 square feet, which require an additional two. That's a total of 23, and there are 27 that are there, so there is a little growth.

Chairman Cosentino: How many total parking spaces can the parking lot handle?

Louis Loria: 27.

Nanette Bourne: Are you taking the whole building?

Louis Loria: Yes.

Whitney Singleton: This is where Apple Antiques was. It's a separate and distinct parcel. Is this a membership club?

Louis Loria: It's not like a gym membership. When I say I'm a member, I only mean that in a sense that I go there frequently. You buy blocks of time, essentially. So you have to purchase say, 10 half hour sessions, and when you're done with those ten sessions, you have to buy more.

Chairman Cosentino: I know it's the big brick building; there is another building next to it?

Perry Verrone: Yes. It's a separate lot.

Chairman Cosentino: So your parking lot is right in the back of it.

Doug Hertz: You said there was a printer in the basement? Will there still be a printer in the basement?

Louis Loria: Yes, and they're accounted for in the calculation. That's one spot, and we have a total of 23 including that additional spot for the basement. Again, we have 27.

Chairman Cosentino: What is the square footage of the building itself?

Nanette Bourne: The whole building is 10,000 square feet; they are taking the whole 10,000 square feet minus the basement.

Louis Loria: We are proposing to turn that building into a usable building, make it nicer and functional and the parking clearly complies. We have two handicap spots with a total of 27 including the total of two handicaps.

Chairman Cosentino: Was there some kind of a formula?

Louis Loria: Yes.

Nanette Bourne: What I'm grappling with is that it's looking a lot like gym.

Louis Loria: It's not a gym at all.

Nanette Bourne: I think what's happening, and I don't mean that in a disparaging way. But maybe it's a unique use that may appear to function a lot like a gym. Do you ever have groups?

Chairman Cosentino: There are no weights in here?

Louis Loria: Yes there is weight training.

Chairman Cosentino: What do you do differently than the MAC would do?

Louis Loria: It's not a membership. The biggest thing is the boxing. It's one on one training. It's not a classroom setting. You come in, you're with a guy, and he walks you through the whole facility working out with you and only you.

Perry Verrone: The biggest difference is the boxing. Half the people do boxing, maybe 25% do weight, and maybe another 25% do sport conditioning along with a trainer.

Louis Loria: But it's cross training. In other words, if you're interested in overall body conditioning, you'll do some boxing, you'll do some yoga or some other type of stretching exercises, so there is a lot of different spaces that are required. It's not your average working out facility. It's a one-on-one training experience.

Doug Hertz: You understand what we're grappling at here?

Louis Loria: Yes, I totally get it.

Doug Hertz: You're going to have 10,000 feet of usable, multipurpose training space, not calling it a gym, and 23 parking spaces. Another facility, another organization with that same physical plant would have 200 people in it.

Louis Loria: Yes, if was a gym membership.

Perry Verrone: We want to do the boxing the first half, then a wide open area where it would be all sports conditioning in the back half, and then upstairs have the weights and then have all the offices in the front.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: You basically buy a block of time for X amount of dollars. The block of time is broken up into one hour or one half hour increments. You choose to spend half of that time doing boxing and another half lifting weights. So while you're doing your boxing, you're saying that trainer is a boxing trainer who is going to work with you on that subject and that subject alone, and then when you go to your other half and you lift weights, you're going to have a different trainer to do weights?

Perry Verrone: Yes. You've got it.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: Are you going to have shower facilities and eating facilities.

Perry Verrone: Yes. Shower facility and a juice bar, which is being discussed.

Louis Loria: The important distinction is if you go to a gym, and you're a member, you're on your own. Nobody bothers you, you shower and you leave. This is completely different. You're with a trainer at all times, and it's very specific. This is the core of his business. People that go to his facility are not going to go the Mac. This is a completely different type of business operation. It's just a one on one training session. That's why it's more expensive. It's exclusive.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: Where do you operate now?

Perry Verrone: Right next door.

Ralph Vigliotti: How many parking spaces do you have?

Perry Verrone: 14.

Ralph Vigliotti: And you have 2400 square feet there?

Perry Verrone: Yes. It's very tight.

Louis Loria: Part of his decision to take the whole space is because there are some business aspects of it where the owner wants to have this one tenant. It's part of the deal with the owner that he takes the whole space. Quite frankly, he doesn't need the whole space. He could probably do with 8,000 square feet.

Joseph Morreale: This is an interesting concept, and I'm dealing with the flow of people. What is the maximum number of people you normally have in your present facility?

Perry Verrone: Peak would be between 9:30 and 11:30. We could have six trainers going at once with six clients.

Joseph Morreale: How long does a typical client stay?

Perry Verrone: Usually an hour.

Joseph Morreale: And then you've got another six coming in?

Perry Verrone: Right.

Joseph Morreale: So there will be overlap, because the first group is probably going to take a shower and linger and then leave.

Perry Verrone: The morning women don't usually take showers. They are in and out right away.

Joseph Morreale: So the hour is fairly fixed.

Perry Verrone: Some do half hours, some do 45 minutes, some do the full hour. We sell blocks of all three.

Joseph Morreale: In watching the car flow; the requirement here is one space for two clients. If I've got 12 clients in there and 12 clients coming, I could need 24 spaces because there is going to be these overlap that could occur. Does this requirement meet your need, or do you need one space per client?

Louis Loria: Quite frankly, he hasn't had any problem with parking.

Perry Verrone: Austin suggested we make 45 minute packages, so we starting selling 45 minute packages to offset that about a year ago, and we have not run into any problems.

Joseph Morreale: If it's a one to one, that requirement is a lot bigger. We don't want to see a real jam up of cars like we've had in a couple of other places around town. Since it's so upscale and unique, what happens if you're not totally successful, and then decide to subdivide and use the rest of it for some other business, because you're going into 10,000 square feet here.

Perry Verrone: I hadn't planned on that.

Joseph Morreale: Well, I have to ask these questions. We're in a recession now.

Perry Verrone: I do roofing, but I don't do roofing out of there. I have no intention of doing anything like that.

Joseph Morreale: Are you in any other collateral business from this?

Perry Verrone: No. I have every intention of it working.

Joseph Morreale: Suppose this doesn't quite work, and maybe you can use 5,000 square feet, and the other 5,000 square feet becomes a gym to generate an increased volume of people to stabilize the business.

Louis Loria: Then we'd have to come back and discuss that.

Joseph Morreale: Yes, you'd have to come back and we would automatically see there wouldn't be parking.

Perry Verrone: When we were applying for this with Austin, he made it clear that this cannot be a membership gym.

Louis Loria: And actually it's very successful with this model. It happens to be working very well, so I think it has a chance of being successful. It's already successful to the point where the numbers look like it's going to work for him, and I think it's a good, unique type of facility that there is a demand for it.

Ralph Vigliotti: Be prepared; in the formation resolution as we move forward, there will be wording that will prohibit any kind of open gym versus a scheduled appointment with a physical trainer.

Chairman Cosentino: Also, when you make formal application, we are going to look at the condition of the parking lot and it will be your responsibility to line it and make it look presentable as well as the front of the building with shrubs and trees. You will go before the ARB for that.

Whitney Singleton: Is this the existing layout of the parking lot?

Louis Loria: No. What you see there is proposed. When I first started explaining the project, I said there is no striping of any kind, and it's just an open kind of parking lot.

Whitney Singleton: You are aware that this doesn't comply with our code?

Louis Loria: No. I followed the guidelines right from the code.

Whitney Singleton: Right, but you should look at 110.28 as to the requirements, aisle widths, etc. If this is to scale, it doesn't appear as though the aisles are any greater than the parking spots themselves.

Louis Loria: No, it does. I beg to differ. Its 18 foot 6 and then 24 feet.

Whitney Singleton: I would suggest that you look at 110.28.

Chairman Cosentino: Make formal application, and we'll put you on the agenda after you do that.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: Also, please come up with a business plan and an organization plan that shows peak utilization hours, parking, turn around time between one client leaving and another coming in so we have a clear, visual picture of the entire operation on a given day.

Chairman Cosentino: You're also going to need outside lighting.

Perry Verrone: Okay, thank you.

Conceptual Application:

Mount Kisco Diner

252 Main Street

PB2008-10

Clifford Munz, Munz Associates

Lucille Munz, Munz Associates

Kent Johnson, Kent Johnson Architects

Mr. and Mrs. Frank Georgiou, Owner

Clifford Munz: Good evening. In short, we have the Mount Kisco Diner, and Mr. and Mrs. Georgiou have purchased the adjacent property. We'd like to enlarge the diner; combining Lot #10 with Lot #9 so that we can accommodate some additional parking. We plan to go to the Zoning Board to get a rezoning on that. Lot 10 happens to be an OD, and the diner is over in a C2. But by doing that we're just intending to add some additional square footage to the entry for a new enclosed entry and then enlarge the dining room. Then we'll add the necessary parking to increase the size of the diner.

Chairman Cosentino: Is this going to be a banquet room for parties? The resolution will state that, there are no parties. I want to be frank with you.

Frank Georgiou: I would like to have this as a private room and open it up on the weekends when I'm busy and I could use the extra seating.

Chairman Cosentino: So it will be a banquet?

Frank Georgiou: Yes. Private parties.

Chairman Cosentino: Private parties. Music?

Frank Georgiou: Yes, music, maybe for the Lions Club.

Chairman Cosentino: Bar Mitzvah, Christenings?

Frank Georgiou: Yes.

Chairman Cosentino: What is the seating capacity going to be?

Clifford Munz: The expansion on the room will be 66.

Chairman Cosentino: You have a banquet for 50 people. 25 or 30 bring cars. Where are you going to put them? I know his business on a weekend now, and it's hard to get a parking spot there. Where are these 25 cars going to park if you're only providing 15?

Clifford Munz: The way I have been looking at this is that this is an extended dining room. This is movable seating.

Chairman Cosentino: The statement that was just made that it's a banquet room.

Clifford Munz: It is my understanding that it was not intended to be a banquet room; it is intended to be additional dining for the restaurant.

Chairman Cosentino: It's going to be a banquet room. Let's establish that. I will repeat my question. If it's allowed 66 people and half of them bring cars, where are you going to park those automobiles when you're only providing 15 more parking spaces?

Clifford Munz: I have to say the calculations I've been working with have been as a restaurant, which is a one per three.

Chairman Cosentino: This is only a conceptual, and the restaurant is good for the village. It's time now to find out where you can load and unload. It's been reported many times that trucks unload in front of the diner. Now that you're redoing this, you need some kind of an unloading platform back there.

Clifford Munz: Absolutely.

Chairman Cosentino: What other changes?

Clifford Munz: Kitchen stays the same; bathroom stays the same except for adding one fixture which is a toilet.

Ralph Vigliotti: Will you lose seats that are currently here now, booths, because of an entrance to this area, how many seats will you actually lose?

Kent Johnson: It depends upon how we do the attachment.

Clifford Munz: That which we lose in the connection we recoup here. So, when the overall count says plus seating, plus employees, that is saying that there was enough square footage for 72 people. However, I took away 12, so we're absorbing.

Joseph Morreale: You are going up 50% more in the space with the number of people that will be there, but you're not adding 50% of the parking.

Clifford Munz: A new construction only requires we put 75%, first of all if you get new square footage to begin with. Secondly, if we're going by patrons, we looked at it more than one way. We looked at it as if you were to tear down the entire building, rebuilt the whole thing, and we still had adequate parking, actually more parking than necessary. We also looked at it as if it's an existing building with an addition, being that the addition was by square footage we also do a square footage, and we end up with 64 spaces that we're proposing is better than 57 spaces, which is what it was if you took it by square footage. We also looked at it by the capacity method, which is one per three people. We end up with exactly the right number of spaces; 64 required, 64 provided. If we take the more stringent of them, the more stringent being the capacity method, we've got enough parking.

Joseph Morreale: I understand that statistically, but I'm also thinking about the present use and the volume of cars that come in here and how difficult it is, and you're adding a significant amount of space. Whether the numbers are there are now, I am a bit concerned. I'd never like to see a restriction of expansion. You really do have a wonderful place, but I am concerned. We've now raised two issues. One is the banquet room, and just the sheer proportional increase of 50% would suggest that you might need another 25 spaces, not 15. I am concerned, and I think we are probably going to want to look at some kind of traffic flow.

Chairman Cosentino: It's good that those eye sore buildings are coming down anyway. We will help you as much as we can. If you're having a party, cars are going to come in and stay there longer than somebody just coming and having a dinner and leaving.

Chairman Cosentino: Understand this is a conceptual, but you're going to have to work something out with parking. We have a responsibility and if there is an overflow, they are going to come back to us.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: The nice new plantings outside; is that in and around brick areas and pavers?

Clifford Munz: There is a pedestrian way there, and that pedestrian way is for the purpose to get from the parking lot to the sidewalk vice versa; also, to avoid folks from walking in that one way.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: And how much square footage are the pavers going to represent?

Clifford Munz: The pavers actually are very small. If you go to the developed/undeveloped areas, you will see we are clearly within the 10% of undeveloped. The pavers are less than 1,000 square feet.

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: The tree plantings in the back corner there, are they paving?

Clifford Munz: It's very important and especially helpful for you to know this is a comparison, and we tried to make it very visual. This is the present undeveloped. This Lot 10 is 100% developed. Now, we've actually identified undeveloped existing E-4-3 in each of the square footages, which have been tallied, come up to 1,389 square feet. Knowing that now I have a combined lot, if you have 90% coverage, we're interested in 10% non developed. So we tried to make it a little easier that way. 10% times the 34859 to combine for the two lots is a 3,000 and change. What we tried to make rather clear is all our new undeveloped proposed in an oval is identified in each case and none of this paver area was considered undeveloped. So we clearly identified side by side that we're complying now.

Chairman Cosentino: I know you do good work, and I know you're a good team, and what you've done so far is fine. We're concerned on parking. We need to ask these serious questions.

Clifford Munz: To increase parking one could decrease undeveloped. That's finite.

Kent Johnson: Basically we're meeting the parking standard and I understand your questions about parking and catering and the staff and the overflow. How do we quantify additional parking that you're looking for, and what standard do we use? We are basically following the standard that's there, and you're asking us to go beyond that. What is the next step?

Vice Chairman Sturniolo: What happens if there were a bachelor party, where the likelihood of more cars with single driver occupants arriving so that 33 could be conceivably a higher number as well.

Kent Johnson: I perfectly understand your point, but you understand the difficulty from our point? If there is no code to follow or any standard that's set we can projector all day about how many people you could get at any given time; whether it's customers coming in to eat or coming in to party.

Lucille Munz: Or people that have parked along the street and have gone shopping and now decide to walk and get something to eat and haven't driven, or have parked their car elsewhere. Part of what we tried to do here with just the general entrance is make this much more attractive so that people, who are walking along the street, hopefully as we move on and price of gas goes up, people will be walking and instead of driving from one end of town to the other might want to hope you might want to walk.

Doug Hertz: I don't see a bicycle parking area.

Lucille Munz: We could easily do that.

Doug Hertz: Is there a definition in the code for a catering hall or something else that has a different parking requirement?

Mr. Singleton: As with regard to a parking requirement, I believe it's a TBD by the Planning Board. But then again, any of these parking requirements in many respects are to be determined by you.

Ms. Bourne: Catering hall is one space per 100 square feet of gross.

Clifford Munz: It would be nine parking spaces.

Nanette Bourne: Plus one space per employee.

Clifford Munz: Right now we have an eight count figured in there.

Whitney Singleton: If I could just follow-up on a point that you raised previously. We're focusing on the number of parking spaces, and I want to be clear with regard to the issue that you brought up about the two different zones. They are proposing a portion of this restaurant or catering facility whatever you want to call it, in a zone where it's not permitted.

Clifford Munz: We are looking for a zoning change.

Ralph Vigliotti: If you're looking for a change in zone because the 910 square foot extension goes into this new zone; if it was shortened and it didn't go in the zone, you wouldn't need a zoning change, correct?

Clifford Munz: You can leave zero or six feet.

Ralph Vigliotti: So if this was sliced off, you wouldn't need a zoning change?

Chairman Cosentino: Yes, because they are marrying the two properties together.

Clifford Munz: We made some evaluations with what one could do with such a property, and after we went through enough scenarios, this is probably the best use for the property because it is what it is presently, and because we know the business he has now is a good business, and we'll get rid of an eyesore, have much more green than we had before, and we're trying to orient back down to the pedestrian way. It's a dual action thing. The chambers for the storm drainage for this property are here. We keep them in the green area and continue to use the storm treatment system that is there, we only put it in five years ago, so there is positioning here that is real specific and a logic that is there. That being said, we are looking for the standard to try and help us understand how to design such a thing. Without a standard I need to know what I'm doing.

Joseph Morreale: What does that do to the traffic flow? Now you've got in and out the same entrance and you're moving away from the stoplight and moving back further and coming up to the street.

Clifford Munz: Reasonable point. We also have Jiffy Lube who's got an entrance directly adjacent to this one. Putting the two of them together created its own congestion. By separating, we're thinking that that alienation from one to the other is really a positive thing.

Joseph Morreale: Except you've got two-way traffic there.

Clifford Munz: This is true.

Joseph Morreale: I would like to have that looked at, because I would like to see what it would do to the flow.

Lucille Munz: I think in some ways it actually would help. When this light is stopped and there is traffic all in front, you can't make the left going down. This always seems to be a congestion point at that intersection. Maybe in some respects by pulling the traffic further down it would actually help that one corner. We could certainly show it within context of the plan within the corners and distances so we can have a better sense.

Nanette Bourne: Your way in is 20 feet and it goes to 24 feet; and, the requirement is 24 feet, so you're short 4 feet?

Clifford Munz: Minimum requirement for in and out is 18. Two rows of nine, I think.

Kent Johnson: It's the road in and out; it's not the travel aisle, the 20 feet.

Nanette Bourne: Did Austin confirm that?

Lucille Munz: Generally when you have the 24 feet it's for backing out. The travel lane is traveling back and forth, and it goes to 24 when you have the parking back to back.

Anthony Oliveri: The aisle requirement is 24, I'm not sure of the driveway.

Clifford Munz: I think you'll find it's 18.

Lucille Munz: We did discuss this with Austin; honestly I don't remember the exact conversation.

Clifford Munz: And I don't mean to shrink it. I'd like to obviously go as wide as possible, but when you're playing a very delicate game with your 10 percent green and whatnot, obviously if you get a little relief here you get a little more expansion there.

Lucille Munz: More importantly it has to function first and foremost, because that is the way in and the way out, so we'll be sure to take a look at that.

Whitney Singleton: How about deliveries?

Clifford Munz: Presently, he's got a loading spot here as well as how they are being delivered right now through here. These spots are empty at a certain point, but there is a designated berth.

Whitney Singleton: So there will be no deliveries in front?

Clifford Munz: No.

Doug Hertz: What size vehicles typically deliver?

Frank Georgiou: Panel trucks, step vans.

Whitney Singleton: There are presently tractor trailers parked illegally in the front to deliver.

Doug Hertz: Whatever delivery you receive, it has to be able to come in, back up, unload and make these turns. Anything but a small truck isn't going to do it there.

Lucille Munz: We can put the radius arcs actually on the drawing so you can see what the turning radii would be for specific trucks.

Chairman Cosentino: The positive is that we are getting rid of an eyesore, but you have to see what it weighs with.

Doug Hertz: Is there a magic number to the size of the addition?

Clifford Munz: It worked with capacity, and that's how we forked it out. It was the backing off of green to addition, so as long as we had enough undeveloped, and it started to yield the number of square feet that we could build onto this.

Lucille Munz: Part of it was also solving some problems like the waiting area. When you come in the diner right now there is a very small area for waiting so one of the concerns was providing a larger space for the waiting area. One of the concerns was how to make this more useful, and the other was that you are increasing the square footage to include more with a closed space and what size would that work.