ARB Minutes 5-24-06-1

Minutes

Architectural Review Board

Village/Town of Mount Kisco

May 24, 2006

Members in Attendance: Nancy Abramson

Anne Houck

Kevin Kelly

Members Absent: Frank Tortorello

Steve Marrano

Staff Attending: Karen Schleimer

Staff Absent: Austin Cassidy

The Chairwoman Abramson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.

Special Discussion:

This case has been before the board two previous times and it was recommended by the building inspector to have discussion on this case and maybe a possible decision could be made on this case. Original submissions were shown to the board. The board had previously discussed downsizing the awning along with a sign package that is on this building. The placement of the awning was previously discussed to either be placed over the door only or the window only.

Nancy Abramson: When this building was constructed all of the signage of this was done in a uniform manner. When this applicant was before us we had said that the package that was established was established such that there were no awnings on the side on the entire building. We had suggested at the time to do a sign carved wood and place above the door. The applicant had stated that they really wanted an awning.

Nikki Shah: My logo would not be seen on the wood block. It would not be noticed. I had a customer come in and could not find my location and had to call me from here house. Nobody can find my business. The alternate suggestion given by you was just an awning over the door. That would not look nice. I have no signage there now.

I have a banner on the inside of the window. The customer still could not find me. I want the same type of awning as next door and no different in size and shape.

Kevin Kelly: requesting photographs that continue down the side of the building.

Nikki Shah: It curves around the building.

Anne Houck: The end of the building has another window and there is no awning there. There is also no awning down to the corner. There is a sign in the next building up high designating the name of the restaurant.

Nancy Abramson: The packaged was established and there were no awnings on this particular building.

Kevin Kelly: Previously the board has proposed one awning over the door.

Nikki Shah: I cannot write anything on the awning.

Anne Houck: You can write something on the awning. It can be done. If you wanted to do an awning with you logo you could do it over the door, or in the area that is designated for a sign. You could put a sign. This building was designed to have the sign in the designated place. This building was not designed to have an awning that covers the lentil. This is the design of the building to have the lentil open. The entire package was organized long before you were a tenant of this building. That is why we are asking you to adhere to either the signage over the door in the proper area or we had talked before about if you wanted an awning make it smaller and just over the door with your logo. I know that is not to your liking, but that has been the decision.

Nikki Shah: My logo will not fit in there. It will be so small.

Kevin Kelly: Why couldn't you increase the definition in the font size of the logo in that space?

Nikki Shah: The whole thing would change.

Nancy Abramson: Why can't you do the logo in the sign?

Nikki Shah: It will not be seen. My logo is too big and will not be seen.

Anne Houck: You have a chose.

Kevin Kelly: You are on the right track. An awning in here and she can put the name of the store and the logo would fit.

Nikki Shah: The door is only 2 ½ feet. If I could use brick section but over the door it looks like a restaurant.

Anne Houck: It says Nikki Diamond what would make people think it is a restaurant? The board was trying to be flexible to say that the original signage package that we would flex it to have an awning over the door only.

Nancy Abramson: What I would do is keep the awning over the door with the number on it.

Nikki Shah: The corner has an awning. This would enhance the beauty of the building.

Anne Houck: I believe we disagree with that.

Nancy Abramson: if you want we could take a vote on this. We are going to stand behind our decision we have previously made. You can do either of those options.

Nikki Shah: Just a small awning over the door does not make sense.

Nancy Abramson: It is your decision. We can take a vote.

Kevin Kelly: You have given her at previous meetings the opportunity to keep the plaque signage with name and logo and either a shed awning over the door with the number on it. You are getting your logo and you are getting your name in and the number and you are getting covering at the front door. You are getting both by doing it the way the board has previously offered. It is just not an awning going across the entire front of the building.

Nancy Abramson: Do you want to make a decision of what you would like to choose and let us know?

Nikki Shah: Thank you.

Returning Cases:

No Show - Letter to be written regarding material change.

Joe Sassano: We have taken your suggestions and modified the drawings. Instead of doing Sandra's Beauty Salon it will state Beauty Salon.

Nancy Abramson: They do not want he name on it?

Joe Sassano: No. Just beauty shop.

Anne Houck: Motion to approve the application as presented.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Board All Ayes as presented.

Frank Iam, applicant

Frank Iam: We do not have a sign and this is the new design.

Nancy Abramson: Is there anyway that you could repair some of the shingles? I noticed that some of the shingles have a messy look to them. You might want to check into that since it would make the restaurant a little more inviting. You check with your landlord. We are just making a friendly suggestion on cleaning up the façade.

Anne Houck: This would be a wood carved sign with crème background and burgundy letters. The letters would be similar to the façade of the building. This is a nice improvement. I motion to accept the application as noted that the awning is to be removed before the sign is put up.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Board All Ayes to approve the application as noted that the awning is to be removed before the sign goes up.

Nick Germanakos: We are proposing to use color #813. We are going to remove the number off the post and just leave the 36 on the sign the way it is. The gray would surround with black letters. The posts would be the wood color.

Anne Houck: Would you consider painting the posts gray or black? You could also use an opaque penetrating stain. It would hold up better. Black would cover better than the gray. The black would frame it better and the gray around the street number.

Nick Germanakos: 813 will be the color of the sign.

Anne Houck: I motion we approve the application as presented.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Board All Ayes to approve the application as presented with the color #813.

5. Crème De La Crème - Lot 2 Morgan Drive - Application #05-14, John Ginocchio, representing applicant, brad Schwartz, attorney for the applicant

Brad Schwartz: We have received site plan approval this past April for the child care facility from the planning board. So we are here before your board to present the proposed building. This application had received planning board approval as well as ARB approval previously 2 years back. We then made a new planning board application in the fall of 2004. That is the approval that we just received this past April. I was here before your board in 4/05 with a different architect. Your board had asked for some revisions and return once we received site plan approval.

Nancy Abramson: We basically said we had no objections to the structural design but needed to see more of it. You did show signage.

John Ginocchio: What you see when you approach the building is a split face and on top would be a stucco finish. The stucco would be of substantial thickness 3/4/ of an inch on concrete block low bearing wall. Set into the base would be a series of windows and doors which would be anodized aluminum with a powder coat whit finish. The glazing would be a bronze tinted glass. The doors would be framed with a stucco arch finish. The center portion would rise to 29.4 and the side bays would be 25.4. The entrance canopy would come out and have a cleared height of 14 feet. Around the back the secondary doors would be hollow metal frame. They would be painted to match the stucco. There is also a sky light that brings light into the center portion of the learning center. They have facilities for infants up through kindergarten. From the roof plan there are ten curve mounted Lenox units. You would not need any screening.

Kevin Kelly: The town does have regulations about screening.

John Ginocchio: The elevations give you the appearance of the building if you were standing on the ground. (Viewing of the site plan). We have studied this and none of the Lenox units would be seen. There are light fixtures that you notice on the rear elevation which provides lighting to the fenced in area for the children. There is a coronus that wraps around the front of the building and provides an architectural element and brings the lighter color up to the top.

Nancy Abramson: This has a planning board approval?

John Ginocchio: Yes.

Kevin Kelly: Any reason why you did not wrap the corneous around to the back and side? The building is extremely plain in my opinion. In the back it looks like a big box car. That is the only signage in the front? No signage at the individual doors?

John Ginocchio: There is one identity sign on the marquee.

Kevin Kelly: I meant the secondary exits.

John Ginocchio: No. The back of the building backs up against vacant land. To the right is a vacant lot as well.

Anne Houck: Actually we have reviewed but not approved a final plan on the large office building that is going in next door. I don't know if you are aware of that.

Kevin Kelly; Can we talk about the color. This is red that I am looking at.

John Ginocchio: The colors that we are proposing here have been approved by our client. It is a reddish brown.

Anne Houck: It is not going to be the red that we are seeing here?

John Ginocchio: A little like the red you see in the shadow on the computer drawing.

Kevin Kelly: I am just one person on this board. Does anybody like that color?

John Ginocchio: These are the colors that our client chose. This is real stucco.

Nancy Abramson: Some companies that we often see have a corporate color and it stands for something. Does this have anything to do with children? I would think not.

Kevin Kelly: Is that the color that Crème uses nation wide?

John Ginocchio: That I do not know. The monument signage that you are seeing there. This is a high composite lime stone. It has a rich feeling.

Nancy Abramson: We have not approved anything.

Anne Houck: We wanted to see more material and we were to discuss the signage. They are two separate issues.

John Ginocchio: The fence is indicated very slightly here.

Anne Houck: The material of the fence?

John Ginocchio: I do not know.

Kevin Kelly: We would like to see a cut sheet of the fencing material. I am to assume it is to keep the children in.

John Ginocchio: We feel it is a beautiful area for this learning experience.

Nancy Abramson: We did not approve the building. The original submission is totally different than what we are seeing tonight and a different architect.

John Ginocchio: The original was a pre-cast concrete building.

Nancy Abramson: So we are staring from scratch.

Kevin Kelly: My initial reaction is it looks like a big box. I can't understand why you removed all the architecture in the back and there is minimal in the front. You can do more if you look at the original submission. I am not sure if this is a movie theater, a Cosco. There is zero glass. There are minimum requirements to get light into the classrooms and I don't know if what you have meets those requirements. I see an entry sign that has no relationship to the building. I like the entry sign, and the colors, tones and use of the brick on the base is nice. You have a touch of blue in there that I assume goes with the logo. The logo down here is a little weak and you can't read it. That looks like it was put up before the building went up. They just don't relate to each other. They are spending a lot of money on the building and this should tie together.

Nancy Abramson: I do think you can do a little better here.

Kevin Kelly: Just because this is the back of the building and you may argue you are not going to see all of it because of the fencing. If there is another building right next door that is looking at this flat wall. I think some courtesy should be taken to all four sides of the architecture. So it is not so flat and plain.

Anne Houck: As well as to the people that use the building.

Brad Schwartz: Can we get a sense of the color.

Kevin Kelly: It is pretty harsh in personal opinion. The glass is nice and the frame is fine. You have gone too far with the red, to dramatic. I am trying to work with you.

Brad Schwartz: Crème has facilities all over the country. I will come back to the board with an answer whether they have corporate colors.

Kevin Kelly: You could have a crème base color and pick up the red in a band. That might be a way to address that. That is very heavy for that building. The color is massive, but if it is a corporate color I will be as open minded as possible on the building. That doesn't mean 80% or more of the building needs to be that color.

Brad Schwartz: The signage with the canopy is ok?

Anne Houck: Initially you had logos on three sides and we asked you to reduce it to one. It looks more like now about the services you provide. That is an improvement. Our comments are generally valid. The current color structure maximizes that harsh massing.

John Ginocchio: It could be a color structure that is less brutal. Is the architecture on the front acceptable?

Kevin Kelly: I am not saying to redesign the building. I think you can work with this elevation and get some angulations back to give more definition and character. Just break up some of the mass might help it. You started something interesting here with the little squares and maybe you could pick up a pattern and break up the pilaster a little bit. It is a huge building. It would be nice to get it down to a more human scale and a more pleasing color. I think the sign should tie together with the building. If they come back with a new color scheme and materials and colors should tie together.

Nancy Abramson I think we all agree with that.

Brad Schwartz: Thank you for your time.

New Cases:

1. JP Morgan Chase - 16 Main Street Application 06-15

John Lorrenzo, representing the applicant

John Lorrenzo: the last time I was before this board I remember you were shying away from sign tab and massive sign boxes. As you can see from what is front of you this is a re-submission with new drawings if the board would like to accept them tonight.

Nancy Abramson: Yes we will accept.

John Lorrenzo: Instead of the big band it would be individual channel letters internally illuminated. It is a nice clean look. This is going to be system wide re-imaging. It will be all over the building. One on main street and on each the north and south side of the building. I believe on the Kirby Plaza side we are removing the side sign the illuminated wall cabinet. The plaque that is there will be removed and individual letters will be placed there.

Nancy Abramson: Let's start from page 1. Side elevation South Moger. This is 24 inch high. The existing band was 30 inches high by 384 inches long.

Kevin Kelly: if you look at the top of the pilaster you are covering some of the ornamentation of the architecture. It was all along, and you still are. Whether it could be scaled down in between would be nice.

Nancy Abramson: I like the letters and the colors. It goes nice with the building.

Anne Houck: If the letters could be made smaller and fit between the pilasters.

John Lorrenzo: What is that going to do with the pillars coming up?

Trying to center in there and keeping more in context and trying to keep the architecture running a straight line up the building. You have to sacrifice something somewhere.

Anne Houck: They were previously content with signage that fit in between the pillars. The previous logo was between the pillars and they felt that was sufficient branding of the building. There are so many signs on all three facades. Nobody is going to mistake the name of this building.

John Lorrenzo: I understand. We have continued that detail around all three sides.

Kevin Kelly: Do you know how big the original letters were?

John Lorrenzo: No, but maybe around 16 inches high and the logo appears to be 24.

Kevin Kelly: It looks like there could be some additional room.

John Lorrenzo: I could size it in there.

Kevin Kelly: The look is very nice. The colors are good.

Anne Houck: there would be Chase signs on either side of the entrance.

John Lorrenzo; Non illuminates flat cut out painted aluminum.

Nancy Abramson: We are going to try and shrink the lettering.

John Lorrenzo: We will stay within that band. I will submit to you a photograph drawing showing the size. The logo is to be within the confine.

Nancy Abramson: That is going to be continuous all the way around.

Anne Houck: We will need amended drawings.

Nancy Abramson: I would like to see this back. There is quite a bit of signage here and we are looking for a total number.

John Lorrenzo: Can we submit this to the manufacture?

Karen Schleimer: there is a lot going on with this building and you are better off having it come back. The number of signs needs to clearly define with a total number.

Nancy Abramson: We would like to see you come back.

Kevin Kelly: They need to have a site map locating the signs and on the elevations put a key number next to the elevation so we know where they are.

John Lorrenzo: I previously submitted that.

Nancy Abramson: You are probably right, but we are now looking at different ones and we have not seen that. We need to have a total number that located what is removed and what is new. There is no run list of the total number of signs. So we are asking you to come back.

John Lorrenzo: Thank you.

2. Liza's Pizzeria - 28 Main Street - Application #06-20

Vitor LLeshaj

Vitor LLeshaj: We are replacing what is existing. Right now there is no signage. I do not have photos of the previous sign.

Nancy Abramson: If you look at the front of this building there are three different types of signs. We are trying to move away from the sign boxes.

Vitor Lleshaj: If I have to remove the sign box it will be an added expense for me. This would be a big investment for me. I am gong to be using red white and blue.

Anne Houck: Do you think the sign can be downsized. It is very large.

Vitor Lleshaj: The red is going to match the building.

Anne Houck: The size of the lettering in comparison to the size of the store is much bigger.

Kevin Kelly: The lettering needs to be smaller.

Anne Houck: Your neighboring shop keepers are more in proportion to the size of their building.

Nancy Abramson: The sign is in the entire sign box and we do want to work with you. You need to make the letters smaller. It might be nice to move the whole thing in and give some space on each side with more white in the background.

Kevin Kelly: You have 18 inch letters here and you could go down to 12 inch lettering with no problem. You could possibly put a frame around this. It would be much more classic. You could keep the sign box. Or you could reduce the letters and more background. I prefer the frame as my number one choice.

Nancy Abramson: Are we keeping the red? Or is this more maroon? I would like to see it match the building red.

Kevin Kelly: The white background will help you in the long run.

Nancy Abramson: I would like to see the letters match the color of the building. You will have to come back with the new design.

3. Great Oaks Architecture - 120 Kisco Avenue - Application #06-21 - Michael Messinger, applicant, Gerald Greenberg, property owner

Michael Messinger: We are replacing a multi tenant sign at 120 Kisco Avenue. There are two existing signs and one will be removed and we will replace one sign in the same exact place. The existing sign is shy of 10 feet high. What we propose to put back is 7.4. The tenant signs are identical in letter height of 4 inches. We are putting it two sided with a better stone base. The intention is to match the color of the building either with a cultured stone or a natural stone. No lighting.

There will be room for two more blanks. This also will be double sided.

Kevin Kelly Is there any concern about visibility? The sign is now double in width.

Gerald Greenberg: There will be shrubs put in around the sign.

Michael Messinger: Austin gave us a number of 12 feet off the curb and we show 11 and we would be happy to pull it back another foot.

Anne Houck: Could you describe the materials?

Michael Messinger: The colors are Benjamin Moore black, white diamond and green gable 2041-30. The green background would be like plywood on top of steel posts within like a sandwich. The signs would be a back painted acrylic with stick on letters. So they can be changed without dismantling the sign. A stone base color to match the masonry of the building.

Kevin Kelly: No other signage other than that.

Gerald Greenberg: No other signage. Everything else is staying the same. The sign on the left is coming down.

Michael Messinger: the location will be 12 feet from the curb as per Austin's recommendations.

Kevin Kelly: I motion to approve this application with the change of 12 feet from the front setback.

Anne Houck: Second

Board All Ayes to approve as noted

Peter Stonsby: We are proposing to expand the side of the house and up a level. We are also making changes to the front of the house. There is an existing patio that needs repair. The concrete will be removed and the front of the dormer will come out past that. It will become the new master bedroom. The patio will be 12 feet out and contain the same roof line.

Peter Stonsby: I am removing the oil tank out of the ground and place it in here i.e. tool room. We have access through the basement. Under the alcove there is a basement door there.

Kevin Kelly: Are they before any other boards?

Nancy Placona: Currently before the planning board.

Kevin Kelly: The second floor that you are adding the windows does not meet egress code. They are very small. 5.74 square feet is the code. It will only help the architecture. You will need to be able to get out of that window. The master bedroom is new and the windows here must meet egress requirement by the building department. It will change the look. Those codes will affect this board. If you go to your front elevation you have a portico there and that window would collide with your portico. Typically you would match all your windows. It will make the house brighter. You need to have the architect go back and check the state code about egress and it is for your safety.

Peter Stonsby: We need to resubmit the final window sizes.

Kevin Kelly: The sizes should show on your plans.

Nancy Abramson: You need to clarify the window on the back also.

Kevin Kelly: If you are concerned about budget you can reuse existing windows you can use them in the 2 story space and do something very interesting in that space.

Peter Stonsby: There are also plans for a detached garage and adding a level on the garage. We are hoping to get an approval at least on this for storage for my tools and equipment. This is not visible from the road.

Kevin Kelly: You want to match all the colors and materials to the house. If you are going to have shutters you need to show that on your plans.

Nancy Abramson: We are looking at the garage. The house there is still changes that are going to be made. The proposal is not complete.

Anne Houck: The plans need to reflect what is being built and they don't, that is the problem. You have made some changes to the house and that needs to be reflected.

Nancy Abramson: The back of the house needs to be redesigned.

Kevin Kelly: We need to see the whole package. Along with the code pieces that need to comply.

Nancy Abramson: We would be comfortable with the garage portion of this application.

Peter Stonsby: Everything as far as material for the garage will be the same as the house. The color is summer wheat and the corner boards will be white. Showing cut outs of lighting fixtures, garage door, shutters.

Kevin Kelly: I think with the comments we have mentioned we can go forward on the garage and resubmit the main house.

Nancy Abramson: Are you doing shutters? Please take into account when doing the shutters do a little more to enhance the look and not use the plastic. This is a richer look and the details make all the difference.

Anne Houck: I motion to approve all the garage renovations as noted with consistency between the two buildings a window in the door entrance of egress to the garage. Colors would be summer wheat with white trim. The request of the board is the house is resubmitted with code compliant windows and a compliant plan.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Board All Ayes to approve as noted.

5. John & Patricia Petrick - 45 Willets Road - Application #06-17, Jim Bossinas architect

Jim Bossinas: We are proposing a rear yard addition. We are extending the side walls of the existing home. The reason we are here today is because we are on a corner lot on Emery St. The side elevations would be fronting Emery. On one side of the house it is a mud room and the other is a flat roof. We are looking to extend the family room an incorporate the recessed areas that are voided on the rear elevation. The second floor is going to be an extension on the existing bedroom. The first floor would be an extension onto the family room. The exterior materials will be maintained to the existing. We are incorporating some copper work. The windows are one of the places that we have stretched it a bit. The existing windows at one point in time were replaced. We are bringing a new fireplace into the living room along the existing and reclad the entire unit. The new flu is going to be steel. It will not be seen will not be seen. All the material will be matching. The only new feature is the balcony off the master bed room. This is an additional 320 square feet.

Nancy Abramson: Are you moving the driveway?

Jim Bossinas: We are following the curb that we are introducing on the rear elevation and letting it come across to the existing mud room. We would be taking it off Emery and brining it onto Willetts.

Kevin Kelly: Very nice job and nice detailing. I would like to make a motion to approve as presented.

Anne Houck: Second.

Board All Ayes to approve as presented.

6. Vincent & Justine Boles - 62 East Way - Application #06-18, Richard Torres, architect, Vincent & Justine Boles, owner applicants

Richard Torres: The Boles wish to extend their home. It is a master bed room addition and garage and family room addition. They have a garage that will get wider and deeper. As far as the exterior it will all be matching the existing. The additions step back from the front faç