ARB Minutes 9-18-07

Minutes

Architectural Review Board

Village/Town of Mount Kisco

Wednesday September 19, 2007

Meeting called to order at 7:30 pm, Wednesday September 19, 2007, at the Municipal Building Mount Kisco, New York.

Members Present: Chairwoman Nancy Abramson

Anne Houck

Kevin Kelly

Bruce Hartleben

Members Absent: Frank Tortorello

Staff Present: Austin Cassidy

Staff Absent: None

Special Discussion:

230 North Bedford Road

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Chairwoman Abramson: Is this to be discussed among ourselves?

Nancy Placona: No Mr. Cardarelli is here this evening.

Thomas Cardarelli: We recently received a notice of code violation that we were in excess of 30% of the window. I measured the entire square footage of the entire building and it falls well within the code of about 13%. Those 2 signs are about 100 square feet of glass. I have been told that it is by the size of the window.

Chairwoman Abramson: No it is by the window itself.

Thomas Cardarelli: It is by the window itself? Each panel is 60 inches.

Chairwoman Abramson: You are saying that this is less than 30%?

Thomas Cardarelli: No what I am saying is this is less than 30% of the entire building. I did not know that it was one window. We have been in Mt. Kisco for 34 years. We renovated the restaurant in 1998 and that sign has been there for at least 10 years. We have never been asked to remove it that is why we were surprised when we received the notice. What we have done is to reframe from putting up additional decals that Burger King provides to market new products and promotions. I have provided photographs so you can see the rest of the building and nothing up in an effort so we can maintain.

Chairwoman Abramson: What we are here to discuss is whether or not we are going to allow him to keep it up. Why don't we go around and everyone can make their comment. Generally we have been working hard to with the help of the town that all signs are in accordance with the law and I think for a period of time that was not the case. This is the new way that we are operating and so when things come before us we ask people to maintain the proper law in accordance with the law. This is not in accordance with the law. My personal feeling is that this is too much.

Anne Houck: I looked at it before the meeting.

Thomas Cardarelli: Can I relocate that if I desire?

Chairwoman Abramson: No. You could spread it out.

Thomas Cardarelli: I am saying to another set of windows. I do not understand. There are nine windows on that panel and each one takes three windows. So what you are saying is that is I can eliminate one of those three so I can have one of those three and that is a third? You want me to eliminate both signs?

Chairwoman Abramson: No, go down to 30%.

Thomas Cardarelli: So I can eliminate one three panel.

Anne Houck: We are not asking you to eliminate anything; we are asking you to reduce the size of the signage and coverage of the window to 30%. This is the current signage ordinance.

Thomas Cardarelli: This is an expensive situation. Can I leave one three panel and just move the other one to someplace else?

Anne Houck: The simple answer is “No”.

Thomas Cardarelli: So you want me to eliminate the whole thing?

Anne Houck: I want to repeat what we have said before. The ordinance states that window signage that covers window glass or door window glass cannot exceed 30% of the window. You don't have to eliminate any particular piece of signage, but the size of it cannot be any more than 30% of the window in question.

Thomas Cardarelli: So if you have nine pieces of glass…

Anne Houck: It doesn't matter.

Thomas Cardarelli: If I have nine panels I can only put signage on 30% of each window panel.

Anne Houck: Correct.

Nancy Placona: Interior.

Kevin Kelly: You can keep some of your graphics on each one of those panels as long as you do not exceed 30% for each individual panel.

Chairwoman Abramson: So if you want and I think that we have made ourselves clear here unless you have a different view point. You can take off $1.99 and what is underneath and just keep Kids and whatever that top line is or you can condense everything. Is this painted?

Thomas Cardarelli: Yes, as I said it has been there for ten years.

Chairwoman Abramson: I understand. As I said for ten years there were a lot of signs that were not in violation but now we are slowly trying to get everybody in accordance with the law.

Kevin Kelly: It maybe cute and we have set precedence and we have rejected many people that have come before this board who have come in for signage. I think that we would be headed down a slippery slope if we said nice guy and let him do it. We would have a problem. It is no reflection on the applicant it is just our regulation and I think you could probably salvage some of it. Some of it you are going to have to lose on some of those windows.

Bruce Hartleben: I am the newest board member and I am not sure I understand the time line of existing signage complying with new.

Anne Houck: It is not pertinent with this issue.

Chairwoman Abramson: This law has been on the books for a long time. No one ever said to him that he was not in accordance with the law. It has now been brought to our attention. Do we say it is ok? It has been brought to our attention and we are going to say we are not going to worry about it or we are going to say it has been brought to our attention and you are in violation could you please put yourself in accordance with the law. That is my thought. Do we need to take a vote?

Thomas Cardarelli: I don't think so. I think it is pretty unanimous. What kind of time frame do I have to do this?

Chairwoman Abramson: We are pretty flexible here. You have been a good neighbor in the community. I am sure you did not do this deliberately; I think that you just did not know. We understand.

Thomas Cardarelli: So I will get ten years to change it?

Chairwoman Abramson: What is reasonable? It has been this way for ten years? $1.99 has been there for ten years?

Kevin Kelly: Single pane glass?

Thomas Cardarelli: Two layers of glass. I will have to see what I can do.

Kevin Kelly: Austin, How long would they have? What is a reasonable time?

Austin Cassidy: A reasonable standard is usually followed that is the scope of whatever it is that you are talking about. Getting a person to razor off and there is no time table on putting it elsewhere.

Thomas Cardarelli: Eliminating it.

Austin Cassidy: Reducing it.

Thomas Cardarelli: I don't see how I am going to keep any part of it. I have to see what kind of a message it is sending.

Kevin Kelly: You can eliminate the $1.99 and some of that and keep the top part and probably make it $2.99 after that.

Chairwoman Abramson: Take down the kids. I think 60 days would be fair.

Thomas Cardarelli: If I see that I would be running into a problem I will reach out for an extension.

Anne Houck: I would move that the windows at Burger King at 230 N. Bedford Rd be reduced to no more than 30% at the owner's discretion.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Anne Houck: Motion - Aye

Kevin Kelly: Second - Aye

Bruce Hartleben: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye.

Board All Ayes.

Returning Cases:

19 Kensico Drive

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Janet Giris and Chris Pelella, representing the applicant

Janet Giris: When we were here last the board was kind enough to grant us an approval. We needed to get back to the planning board and needed your approval. I remember at the time the board strongly suggested that we have our client consider some additional improvements to the building. We did what Frank had asked us to do and I am sorry he is not here tonight.

Anne Houck: I am too, he would be so pleased.

Janet Giris: We resubmitted the plan to you in July and we were not sure if we needed to come back to actually present it to you. Then it was decided that we did and you did not meet in August. The plan that we filed just showed the garage door improvement. Since then we have been talking about it more and what we have done is added a window system. We are hoping that you like the window system, which is not on the plan that you have. We did bring a revised plan for you. Unfortunately it was not done in time for your packet.

Chris Pelella: You can see the comparison of what was submitted previously.

Janet Giris: That was what was approved and this is being proposed. We added the landscaping, which was a condition of the planning board's approval and it really does break up the façade.

Kevin Kelly: It looks like night and day.

Chairwoman Abramson: Great.

Kevin Kelly: I would like to thank you for being cooperative. I think at the end of the day you have much nicer building. A much nicer environment for a high end product.

Janet Giris: The plan that you have is different from the plan that you have. We brought this plan for you. If you would accept it we would appreciate it.

Anne Houck: I move that we approve the amended presentation of Charisma Holding Company at 19 Kensico Dr. Mt. Kisco.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Anne Houck: Motion - Aye

Kevin Kelly: Second - Aye

Bruce Hartleben: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye

Board all ayes on the motion to approve as presented.

134 Main Street

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Clifford Munz, architect

Lucille Munz, landscape architect

Isi Albanese, applicant

Clifford Munz: Power point presentation. What we are presenting to you is a survey to recap our last visit. We were before the planning board and they have drafted a resolution and now we need a consensus of the ARB in order for them to form a final resolution. Now if I can walk you through the presentation. There is a binder there is the backup material, colors, and all the samples. This in the binder is the same information that I will be showing through the power point this evening. This is the color rendering. We are proposing a new building at 134 Main Street, which is presently a small gas station. These photographs are looking from across the street and up and down the street. This photograph is the site itself and Piero's next door. Eventually when this gas station goes away this building will be butting up against Piero's. You have this right of way that pitches down toward Blackeby lot. All of these trees will stay the street lights will stay. We are going to widen the promenade so that when we finish people will be able to do some window shopping. This will all open up, all the way to the movie theater. This is the rear of the lot now and this would be the lot after construction. This will all be paved and parking. This is existing conditions surveys to give you an idea of the gas station. This is the plan of what we are proposing and Piero's is over here. We are going to have a nice straight building and will be set back. We have been working with the Planning Board. We have widened the sidewalk by about 2 feet. By doing that we have been able to add the urns for greenery. This area here is the walkway between the theater and our building to the Blackeby lot. You can see that we have taken a pinch out of the building, because the property is on a skew this opens up nicely here. You will have the tree line in here. The building has no real front or back. There is a prominent front and a secondary to the rear. We do have store windows through here and around. If there is a tenant similar to Victoria's Secret where you will have store windows for display. There is flexibility for the building. Here is the view from the Blackeby lot and you can see what is happening and there is private parking now just for this building. On the front it will be all foot traffic. That is why we have the storefront with the awnings coming out and pedestrian friendly. This is the floor plan that shows two stores. One is approximately 3,000 square feet and a smaller store 800 square feet. There is an entrance in the front in each case. When you go around to the back this is where the handicap ramp will be located. Each store will have there own men and woman's facility. The building is one storey about 17 ½ feet to the top of cornice. We are going to be using some light weight brick panel for all in between the columns. The columns will be wrapped in brick to match. We needed a lot of lateral support so we have lintels running across the tops of the windows. That is one of the more pronounced statements. That particular lintel is wrapped in aluminum and this is the actual color. It is very vibrant color. We are going bring that line around the entire building with this oaker yellow. The storefronts doors will not open up to the sidewalks so there will be a second entrance way into the building. That was another criteria from the Planning Board. This is the side view and it is not a very deep building. There are existing street trees along the back line along with street lamps. This is the back elevation. You can enter from the front or the back of the building. Our signage and we are complying with the current code that has been drafted. We have no signs that are greater than 12 inches in height. We are about 14 feet high which is in between the 13-16 feet that is permitted. We have provided space for each tenant's signage. We have parfaits on the front and the back. Our air conditioning systems will be on the center so that if I stood across the street and took a look up and all the way down toward the Blackeby lot in no way would you see the air conditioning units. WE have brought samples of the brick panels. There is a sample of color and fabric of the awing in burgundy tweed. The awnings over the doors are just a little bit different. There is a view here without the awnings to show the bowed windows. We took the three awnings of the same size and set them a little higher in the center and lower on the right and left. It is very clear on the drawings here. Over these particular windows it is a straight awning. In the back it is just an awning over the doorways. On this awning it will have a street number. These are the exterior lights. They are full light cut off fixtures. They will be drawing the lights down and underneath them will be the urns. The urns are cast stone and they are very heavy. They will have ornamental grass in the center and then annuals.

Kevin Kelly: What will you have in the winter?

Clifford Munz: Anything from cabbages.

Lucille Munz: We can put in boxwood and take it out in the spring.

Clifford Munz: The urns are tightly packed so that it will not be used for garbage. In this area there is a pedestal and the reason for that is a deterrent if you will for the skateboarders and one of our local artists do a piece of work. This also was on e of the conditions of the Planning Board. It doesn't screen the barrier but it does its job. The doors in the front are narrow style doors. Feel free to ask any questions.

Kevin Kelly: I will commend you for a complete application and presentation. One thing that does jump out at me. I like all the colors except the yellow band; I am having a hard time with that. I think it is so bold. It is a nice choice with the brick, nice color stucco. Your glass, framing the urns, I like most of what you presented. I think the yellow is just screaming out there.

Clifford Munz: I can respect that.

Kevin Kelly: As one board member it is quite visible. That is my concern and you may be headed down a road that the color maybe too obnoxious.

Clifford Munz: One does have to understand is that where you view it from? If you get further back colors do blend in.

Kevin Kelly: The first time I believe you presented with another color.

Clifford Munz: It has always been yellow. We did make the bottom darker and the band is a foot wide.

Kevin Kelly: I understand why you are doing it.

Clifford Munz: You let the building speak out if you can and the signs do what they do. I would rather have the building be eye catching, because it is retail.

Kevin Kelly: I think it is a nice building. You did not mention the railings in the back, the color of those railings.

Clifford Munz: The handicap rail and I have a choice whether it is metal finished aluminum. Something that does not screen. I want it to be fun.

Bruce Hartleben: The name of the color?

Clifford Munz: I called it oaker.

Bruce Hartleben: It looks more orange than canary yellow.

Clifford Munz: It is a linear building and it brings the scale down to a human scale. The reason for the bricks is the bricks bring it to a human scale. Bringing the horizontal line down brings it to a human scale. It is also the reason for awnings. When you have retail you want people to stop in front of the window for awhile. We have moving traffic, so you want the linear feeling is pretty nice, to bring them around the corner.

Chairwoman Abramson: We have 4 awnings?

Clifford Munz: Over each entry there are three of the exact same size they are just stepped. Then on the front you will have one, two, and three for the larger bays. On the side you will have three. In the rear it is just over the doors. The awnings are just flat and straight.

Chairwoman Abramson: In some presentation I am remembering they are at different levels.

Clifford Munz: Yes, they are staged. We have a bowed window.

Anne Houck: In this drawing you cannot see that they are staged.

Plans being opened over microphone

Chairwoman Abramson: Don't you think this looks a little modern? We are in the middle of downtown.

Kevin Kelly: We are really only talking about 3 awnings correct?

Clifford Munz: Here is a better version of what we are discussing.

Chairwoman Abramson: So only one set of the awnings is staged? Each entrance has staged awnings?

Clifford Munz: Yes. (Showing of visual)

Kevin Kelly: The upper awning is the same projection out?

Clifford Munz: They all project the same they are just staggered.

Kevin Kelly: We do have an interesting wedge between the two. If you from the side you can see through it.

Chairwoman Abramson: All of you are fine with the awning?

Kevin Kelly: I think it is a little bit different. I don't know if I have a problem with the two different pitches. I like the idea. This is just higher but the same pitch that is what we were trying to establish. Even if you go back to your original proposal I saw the yellow tint, but did not realize it was a yellow band. I think it is very yellow.

Clifford Munz: When you look at your rendering does it scream as much?

Chairwoman Abramson: It looks orange. Is that the same exact color?

Anne Houck: It does look orange.

Chairwoman Abramson: With al due respect it is not the same color as there.

Kevin Kelly: The problem is this is the real color. If the gold was to make it look more like that, then we really need to look at another color.

Isi Albanese: It is different from most buildings. We do have the brick that matches the brick in town.

Chairwoman Abramson: I have a problem with the yellow.

Bruce Hartleben: The awnings do not have sides right?

Clifford Munz: Correct.

Chairwoman Abramson: I also want to address about the signage when you talked about having a description of…

Clifford Munz: This is a speculative building. The tenant does not have to put signs all over. But what we do have to do is show him if you do put signs you have to comply and this is where you can put them. This is our plan.

Kevin Kelly: So this building will or will not have a sign package down the road? We are not approving any signs or sign package tonight? This was just for graphic purposes? Is there a potential down the road that you can have 5 tenants here?

Clifford Munz: No.

Chairwoman Abramson: This is very exciting and congratulations for a great design. I personally have a real problem with those awnings. I think that they are too geometric for where we are downtown, next to Town Hall, the Elephant's Trunk.

Clifford Munz: The Elephant's Trunk is very similar and you are not next to Town Hall. There are at least two buildings between us. There is quite a bit of distance. You have the movie theater and that screams 60's.

Bruce Hartleben: I think the straight lines are very conservative. Simple but conservative.

Chairwoman Abramson: I do not see it at all. I see very geometric. This draws the line of attention.

Clifford Munz: That is the idea.

Chairwoman Abramson: That is just my opinion.

Isi Albanese: He has done other buildings and the look was spectacular.

Clifford Munz: Half the problem with retail is drawing somebody in. If you want to bring someone in you make them curious and the next thing you know is they are in your door. You want the building to work for you and you don't want the signs all over. You want the building to do the work.

Chairwoman Abramson: We are not talking about the building we are talking about the awnings.

Clifford Munz: The awnings make the building and the building makes the awnings in this particular case.

Chairwoman Abramson: I am just one opinion. I would like to see one piece awnings.

Clifford Munz: If you are going to miss, miss a lot. Don't try to match something and just miss by a little bit. You either match it or you miss it.

Kevin Kelly: Why don't we poll the board?

Bruce Hartleben: I like it as is. I would approve it.

Anne Houck: I motion to approve the presentation of 134 Main Street as presented.

Kevin Kelly: With the understanding that there will be a separate sign package for the building. Second.

Anne Houck: On the motion - Aye

Kevin Kelly: Second - Aye

Bruce Hartleben: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Nay

Application Approved.

New Cases:

1. Enterprise Rent-A-Car Case#07-48

192 N. Bedford Road

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

John Petrie, representing the applicant

John Petrie: We have an application in front of you this evening. The first part is to replace sign faces and the second is for exterior alterations to the building. Our colors were battleship gray in the existing. Since our last appearance we have changed our image. The sign portion has changed if you notice the 1800 has been removed from the current signage. The letters are a little bit bolder and the white band is gone in the proposed signage. As far as the exterior alterations it is a little bit more earth tone colors of light beige and light brown accent color on the exterior of the building. We are changing from green to black.

Kevin Kelly: Your plan in this case is to put this is to slide out the old and slide in the new sign on the parfait. Same size same placement. This sign looks bigger than what our new regulations are going to be.

John Petrie: I believe it is 3 x 15.

Kevin Kelly: The only reason why I am saying that is there are new regulations in the works. You may be redoing this in a short amount of time.

Austin Cassidy: I am just thinking in that zone there are three different regulations. This building is set back significantly and certainly it would be the mid-sizing or larger-sizing allowed in this zone. I would recommend you calling my office tomorrow to jus t go over the dimensional issues. That would be specific to the signage on the building.

Chairwoman Abramson: The pylon sign at the street would be the same size?

John Petrie: Correct.

Kevin Kelly: The same issue may come in on the pylon sign. WE would need to check that also. I would hate for you to spend money and have to come back in a year to lower the sign, change the parfait.

Anne Houck: We would like to see you take care of it all now.

John Petrie: If that is the case I would look for an approval with the understanding if we decide to conform to the new regulations, that it would be something that we could work with the building department on verses having to come back. It would just be a smaller version of what is here

Chairwoman Abramson: We might just reduce the height of these.

Kevin Kelly: My gut feeling is that this is probably ok with square footage but higher. It looks about 12 feet.

John Petrie: You are also looking at exterior alterations and color changes, from the grays to the light beige main body and medium brown for the accent color. Elimination of the green on the windows.

Ann Houck: You mentioned the brushed aluminum, where is that?

John Petrie: The windows are currently painted green and we would repaint them black.

Chairwoman Abramson: Comments?

Kevin Kelly: I think if we are all on the same page we can make a conditional approval provided that the applicant sits with Austin to comply with the proposed new sign size.

Chairwoman Abramson: He could put this up. Our suggestion is that you might have to replace it down the line.

John Petrie: I would rather get the approval tonight and work with Austin.

Kevin Kelly: I motion to approve upgrading the building colors, changing the storefront color and replacing the existing sign with the new graphic which means you're eliminating the 1-800 numbers on the main sign on the building as well as the pylon sign.

Anne Houck: Second.

Kevin Kelly: On the motion - Aye

Anne Houck: Second - Aye

Bruce Hartleben: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye

Board All Ayes on the approval.

251 Lexington Avenue

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Doug Coccaro, representing the applicant

Doug Coccaro: We are proposing to install 3 awnings on the front of the Flying Pig facing Lexington Ave. We call this an open ended shed roof. We are replacing some existing awnings which have deteriorated and were just removed recently. This photo of the one existing on the backside of the building, which is what, was there previously. What we are proposing is very similar to that, the only difference is from the rendering a logo 8 inch. The ends are open. There is a drop in the front.

At the entrance to the restaurant which is basically to cover the clients that are coming up the walkway as they enter. It projects out 4 feet which is the exact projection from the wall to the fence and ramp.

This photo shows the fencing and our projection is going to come right to that fencing. It acts as a cover.

Kevin Kelly: On this one you want to put the logo of the flying pig.

Doug Coccaro: As you can tell this does not face the street. It faces the parking lot.

Chairwoman Abramson: There is only one sign. Correct? I do not have an issue with the logo.

Doug Coccaro: Correct. This is the sunbrella material. The frame is aluminum. The frame will be painted black so you don't see the silver of the aluminum.

Anne Houck; There is no lighting associated with the sign?

Doug Coccaro: No.

Bruce Hartleben: Does this one have sides on it?

Doug Coccaro: Yes the one over the entrance area.

Bruce Hartleben: With the installation of this it appears that the lighting is blocked.

Doug Coccaro: I don't know

Austin Cassidy: I think this is something that needs to be looked at.

Doug Coccaro: The front steps have been totally renovated. I think that photo shows the steps and that is not what does exist tight now. There is very nice railing and they did stone work all the way up and a ramp with a planter.

Austin Cassidy: Can you provide us with another photo of that area. We should have a record of what is there presently.

Doug Coccaro: Yes I will get that to you.

Austin Cassidy: Email is fine.