ARB Minutes 11-21-07

Minutes

Architectural Review Board

Village/Town of Mount Kisco

Wednesday November 21, 2007

Meeting called to order at 7:30 pm, Wednesday November 21, 2007, at the Municipal Building Mount Kisco, New York.

Members Present: Chairwoman Nancy Abramson

Kevin Kelly

Bruce Hartleben

Frank Tortorello

Members Absent: Anne Houck

Staff Present: None

Staff Absent: Austin Cassidy

Returning Cases: None

New Cases:

1. Co-Communications Inc. Case #07-60

332 Main Street

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Stacey Cohen, and Katherine McKee, applicants

Chairwoman Abramson: Please walk us through your proposal.

Stacey Cohen: Currently this is Lexington Center for Recovery which is a non profit organization for substance abuse and prior to that it was a money manager fund. They have moved up the street. This is next door to Fox Caterers. This is a marketing communications firm and this is signage that we are proposing for the front of the building.

Chairwoman Abramson: This is a ground sign?

Stacey Cohen: Yes.

Chairwoman Abramson: Is there anything there now?

Stacey Cohen: No. Just a property sign and Lexington Center does not want anyone to know they are there.

Chairwoman Abramson: Along Main Street there is all ground signs? Are we allowing ground signs in that area with the new sign code?

Nancy Placona: Yes, I spoke with Patti and she stated that this would be ok for this zone.

Chairwoman Abramson: Does anyone know how high the others are?

Stacey Cohen: They are five and six feet.

Chairwoman Abramson: You are not putting a sign on the building?

Stacey Cohen: No.

Chairwoman Abramson: Walk us through what colors are what.

Stacey Cohen: The colors of our logo are a little bit bronzy. This is not true to color. It would look more like this (referring to color swatch). Corresponding to this it would be a beige type color. This would be earth tones. ECC 263 is the actual and the gold which would be a bronzy gold and black. This would be a carved sign Crete.

Viewing of color placement on the sign

Stacey Cohen: This is our business card and this would be the color pallet.

Bruce Hartleben: The color of the posts?

Stacey Cohen: The posts are matching color neutral to this. The font is Palatino.

Kevin Kelly: We have no building number no phone number.

Stacey Cohen: The building number is on the building. Do you think we need it?

Kevin Kelly: No. I just wanted to clarify.

Chairwoman Abramson: I just need to look at the other photos to get a better sense. Where is it to be installed?

Stacey Cohen: It is going right here. (Showing of the location on the drawings) It would be parallel to the Fox Caters sign.

Chairwoman Abramson: Does anyone have any comments?

Kevin Kelly: Actually I think that it is pretty good.

Frank Tortorello: What I find a little troubling is the vocabulary and that it should be a rectangular signs like the signs on Smith Ave... I would be more comfortable if the logo were on a rectangular background. I think that would involve shrinking it a bit but keep the size the same. I think it would be more consistent with the commercial district. The logo is fine and the colors are fine. In my mind it might work better.

Kevin Kelly: Frank what do you think if they cut the circle underneath?

Frank Tortorello: Let the top extend beyond that? I don't have a problem with that. You might have to shrink a little bit and keep the circular top.

Katherine McKee: This is the same sign that I originally feel in love with.

Chairwoman Abramson: Good, then we are all on the same page.

Kevin Kelly: Is this what we are thinking? (Viewing of drawing done by Kevin Kelly)

Frank Tortorello: I think that would be an improvement. I also think that you could use a little more white/beige around it.

Kevin Kelly: So you think that this area should be reduced a little bit? (Looking at Kevin's drawing)

Frank Tortorello: Not a whole bunch maybe a couple of inches.

Kevin Kelly: We are talking this dimension here that we do not know what it is. (Viewing drawings). Frank is thinking to visually bring it in just to show more of the beige.

Frank Tortorello: I don't think you want the sense of it looking like a target. If you did this I think that it would be fine. Do you want to give some guidance as to how much you want to pull it in, maybe another couple of inches all around?

Kevin Kelly: Do we want to increase this by 50%? I don't know the dimension.

Frank Tortorello: Half of what it is now. You would do it with the whole circle.

Kevin Kelly: This would be 1.5% of this (viewing of the drawing) this will be 1.5 all around.

Stacey Cohen: We will just have a straight line at the bottom.

Bruce Hartleben: What is the size of the lettering in the other signs? It just seems small to me.

Katherine McKee: You mean the “Marketing and Public Relations”? It is always a challenge when we reproduce our logo, because there a lot of words. What we want to stand out is the Co-Communications. It will certainly be legible. I don't think that from a certain distance that you are going to see it as clearly as if you were up close. It is definitely a challenge.

Frank Tortorello: You don't need the INC?

Katherine McKee: No we have it on our letterhead and that is fine.

Frank Tortorello: I motion that we approve with the modifications that were recommended.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Frank Tortorello: On the Motion Aye

Kevin Kelly: Second. Aye

Bruce Hartleben: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye.

Board All Ayes on the approval.

2. Pure Indulgence - Case #07-61

293 (305) Lexington Ave.

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Ray & Joan Terrell, applicant

Frank Oudheusden, with Sign Stop

Chairwoman Abramson: I just drove by there and saw there are people in there. Are you open?

Joan Terrell: Yes we are.

Frank Oudheusden: These people would like to put their sign up on the front of their building. Originally we thought a black background because the sign next door has a black background. When I got here I was informed the background color is blue.

Frank Tortorello: There is a sign package on this building.

Chairwoman Abramson: Yes.

Joan Terrell: Oh really?

Frank Tortorello: Yes there is a sign package.

Frank Oudheusden: I brought the revisions in case you didn't accept the black. This here is the blue.

Chairwoman Abramson: Someone refresh my memory. Do we have any specifications on the height of the fonts?

Nancy Placona: As long as the colors are the same. You did not put restrictions on N4Fitness. As long as it fits in the designated space.

Frank Tortorello: The band is fairly small and it is set back from the road and that was the thinking at the time. You can only get a certain size in there. The real question here is the light fixtures on both sided of the sign. That is a novel twist. Are the other signs lit?

Frank Oudheusden: They are existing on the other signs.

Kevin Kelly: Yes they are existing.

Frank Tortorello: Why are you saying you are adding two small fixtures?

Frank Oudheusden: They already exist.

Frank Tortorello: Ok, fine.

Frank Oudheusden: The set back from the street is almost 100 feet.

Chairwoman Abramson: Any comments from the board?

Frank Tortorello: I like it.

Kevin Kelly: The purpose of the sign package is to make it as simple as possible and keep it consistent. By making it a blue background it does so I have no problem.

Chairwoman Abramson: It is the same color gold?

Frank Oudheusden: Yes

Chairwoman Abramson: Is there a motion?

Kevin Kelly: I make a motion to approve as submitted with the blue background.

Bruce Hartleben: Second

Kevin Kelly: On the motion to approve, Aye

Bruce Hartleben: Second, Aye

Frank Tortorello: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye.

Board All Ayes to approve as noted.

3. Jose Chacon - Case #07-59 - Alterations/Windows

105 West Street

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Elizabeth Munoc, representing and translating for the applicant

Jose Chacon, applicant

Chairwoman Abramson: Will you walk us through your proposal?

Elizabeth Munoc: We would like to change the windows at the front porch.

Kevin Kelly: You have these and plan on replacing them with which one?

Elizabeth Munoc: I am planning on using these windows. (Viewing the pictures of window samples). There will be four windows. They will be double hung.

Kevin Kelly: So there are no grills in the windows. The ones in the front are also double hung?

Elizabeth Munoc: No, it will be slide windows in the front. But there will be four of these. (Viewing of the sample pictures) One window in each side of the porch. Now we have three windows. This is the side of the porch.

Kevin Kelly: This is side window is going down to one window? How wide is that window going to be?

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes. It is going to be double hung.

Kevin Kelly: The width?

Elizabeth Munoc: It will 38” x 57”

Kevin Kelly: What is the material going to be?

Elizabeth Munoc: On the outside of the house it is stucco and I plan on matching that. Inside it is sheetrock.

Kevin Kelly: I am not worried about the inside. Have they filed for a building permit?

Nancy Placona: They can't until they get an approval from your board and then they can file.

Elizabeth Munoc: If you see here it is a front porch. They have this beam in the middle. If I put the window we are going to one beam on each side. WE are going to center the big window. It will be 80”.

Kevin Kelly: It will be centered on this space? Show me on your drawing. From the edge of the door to the edge of the house?

Chairwoman Abramson: How many windows are we talking about in the front?

Kevin Kelly: Two doubles, but it is a slider. It is two different windows and I am trying to figure that out.

Chairwoman Abramson: Why are you doing this?

Elizabeth Munoc: In the winter it is very cold, and in the summer the porch is too hot, so we don't use it.

Kevin Kelly; Any reason why we are not matching the windows on the side?

Elizabeth Munoc: No, not really. I like this kind of window. We have this kind, two of them. My brother gave them to us.

Kevin Kelly: You have the double hung?

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes. I don't know if I can get the double hung in that size. Maybe I will have to put two.

Kevin Kelly: The rest of the house is double hung. You could get double hung here, here and here. (Refereeing to the drawings and photos) and everything would match.

Elizabeth Munoc: Ok. That would be better.

Kevin Kelly: Then it would all tie together.

Bruce Hartleben: I like that. These windows are six over six and the rest of the windows in the house…

Too many people speaking

Elizabeth Munoc: The height is going to be 57”.

Frank Tortorello: Does that work for you all double hung? The reason for sliders it would give you more of a porch feeling as opposed to being a regular room. I think that is what the thinking was.

Elizabeth Munoc: I planning to do this because we have the window. The entire house is double hung.

Kevin Kelly: All we are asking you to do is to match this window with two of them together.

Frank Tortorello: Do you want to be able to open them?

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes.

Frank Tortorello: You might want to put casements on the ground floor with a mullion in the middle to make it look the same proportion as a double hung. Then you can really open them up.

Kevin Kelly: I am think about what she said that her brother gave her two windows for the side double hung. I don't know if we want to match the whole house.

Frank Tortorello: This house is on a street where your just see the front.

Elizabeth Munoc: We thought about doing a bay window. I thought I would like it but it was too expensive.

Kevin Kelly: If expense is truly the concern here. The sliders would probably be the most cost effective of them all. We may want to re-track this to

Elizabeth Munoc: We have been talking about that if we can use that kind, we don't really need to buy the windows. If they can put the double hung I would only have to buy four windows.

Frank Tortorello: If you want to do that you would have to come back to the board. You can't get this approved and then come back. Even if you build it yourself. You would build a bay and put regular windows in it that is a good idea. If you are going to do that you really would need to come back.

Elizabeth Munoc: We will go for this then. WE can put four double hung windows.

Jose Chacon: That is a big problem. This is the front of the porch, this is the door and we want to center.

Frank Tortorello: I would assume that the post is structure.

Kevin Kelly: The minute they center that they would be in the middle is what it looks like. It just means that the header would have to be modified.

Elizabeth Munoc: This is going to be in the middle (viewing of the drawings). But if we put the windows that we want we have to move this to one side.

Jose Chacon: We could put it equal, one on that side and one on the other.

Kevin Kelly: I am not sure where we are going now. Two windows right there and two windows right there.

Chairwoman Abramson: I thought it was just one window on each side.

Bruce Hartleben: Is it sliding or double hung?

Elizabeth Munoc: It is going to be double hung. If we put a big double hung here. It is going to be in the middle of the post. That post will have to be removed. We will put one window here and one window here.

Kevin Kelly: You understand that the post is probably holding up part of that roof.

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes. That is why we are going to put one here and one here. (Viewing of the drawing) That post is not centered.

Chairwoman Abramson: So you are going to move the post?

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes.

Frank Tortorello: That now becomes a building department issue. That is probably the one issue that does need the building inspector to look at. If the beams do not go through the posts, there is a seam there between the beams.

Jose Chacon: The only way to approve that one is to move the post?

Frank Tortorello: No, we can approve the design. Then you have to go to the building department to get your permit. If you are going to take the post out you have put that on the application because it would be affecting the structure. The building inspector will want to come and see that, before you take that post out. If was just the windows he probably would not come by until you were all done. It is not big deal. This is going to double hung windows and you are going to move the post.

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes

Kevin Kelly: Four double hung windows and this will be centered.

Frank Tortorello: These are going to be very small double hung windows.

Elizabeth Munoc: Maybe we can put three.

Frank Tortorello: A normal double hung window is 30-32-28 inches. 32 inches is the standard in an older house. It would be 128 inches which would be 12' 8” verses 6' 8”. It would be twice as big.

Kevin Kelly: It probably should be three windows.

Elizabeth Munoc: Yes.

Frank Tortorello: You might be better off staying with the sliders. You have three sliders you are all set to go. They come in two inch increments. They come 28-30-32.

Elizabeth Munoc: The slide windows that you are talking about is already like this.

Frank Tortorello: Was it three sections or four?

Elizabeth Munoc: Four.

Frank Tortorello: That is probably ok in a slider. In a double hung by the time you make the window 20” wide there is nothing left for the glass. But with a slider they overlap. You only have 2” of wood between the glass.

Kevin Kelly: Are we leaning back to a four panel slider?

Frank Tortorello: I think that it would be easier for them.

Bruce Hartleben: I get 180” from the edge to the door. If you are saying four windows would be 120” then it will leave plenty of room on the side.

Frank Tortorello: That is what they want to do.

Kevin Kelly: they could do either one. I don't know what direction they want to go in.

Elizabeth Munoc: I really like the sliders.

Kevin Kelly: Then let's do the four panel slider.

Bruce Hartleben: If you put the sliders in and that post is structurally you will have the expense of moving that. If you go with the double hung you can leave it there.

Kevin Kelly: Unless it is two sliders, twins. They could then keep the header down in size. By doing the post there is a good chance you will not have to rip out the header.

Elizabeth Munoc: I don't really know for sure. When we painted I saw that it was a 2 x 4. It was pine.

Kevin Kelly: Question number one do you want the sliders or the double hung? You have to tell us and then decide whether it is four panels or four double hung?

Chairwoman Abramson: Do they have to move the post no matter what?

Elizabeth Munoc: If we do the double hung no. Maybe I will put two windows here and here.

Kevin Kelly: That would work. If we keep the post now it is down to two windows and two windows. Do you want them double hung or sliders?

Elizabeth Munoc: Double hung.

Frank Tortorello: I would suggest a minimum of 28” or 30”.

Kevin Kelly: #3052 Double hung any brand.

Chairwoman Abramson: We also want to look at the door. These windows that frame the door are staying.

Elizabeth Munoc: No.

Chairwoman Abramson: So is this the door?

Elizabeth Munoc: This is a vinyl door.

Kevin Kelly: Glass or no glass?

Jose Chacon: With the glass.

Kevin Kelly: Half or full?

Jose Chacon: Half glass.

Kevin Kelly: What color will the door be?

Jose Chacon: White.

Kevin Kelly: I motion to modify an existing front porch with four double hung windows (#3050). Replace the existing front door with a half view glass. Replace the side two windows with one double hung on each side.

Approximately 30” x 52”. (#3050)

Frank Tortorello: Second.

Board All Ayes motion to approve as noted.

Kevin Kelly: On the motion Aye

Frank Tortorello: Second. Aye.

Bruce Hartleben: Aye.

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye.

Chairwoman Abramson: Is there any housekeeping? The minutes will have to be carried over until the next meeting. The Karate studio on Rt. 117.

Nancy Placona: I did notice the signage in all the windows and will have the code officer photograph it.

Chairwoman Abramson: The strip mall where Café Luna use to be, there are now two green signs that do not match.

Kevin Kelly: There was one bad one.

Nancy Placona: Woof and Wash matches.

Chairwoman Abramson: Well other people can't go in there and tell us they cannot match the color. I think that the other one is Century 21.

Nancy Placona: Century 21 has moved out.

Chairwoman Abramson: The nail salon does not match.

Nancy Placona: They did not use John Oliva and that is why it does not match.

Bruce Hartleben: So that complex has a sign package?

Chairwoman Abramson: Yes. Is there a letter for Frank? This is very sad.

Nancy Placona: (reading from James Palmer, Village Manager letter)

Dear Mr. Tortorello, I am in receipt of your letter of resignation from the Architectural Review Board and have forwarded it to the Board of Trustees for discussion at their annual meeting next month. On behalf of Mayor Cindrich and the entire Village Board of Trustees please accept our deepest appreciation for your many years of service to the ARB as both a member and a Chairperson. You have numerous projects to be proud of and have played a vital role in enhancing the quality of life in our village.

(Applause)

Chairperson Abramson: We will miss you Frank.

Frank Tortorello: I will miss you also. I will be around.

Chairwoman Abramson: Motion to adjourn.