ARB Minutes 12-19-07

Minutes

Architectural Review Board

Village/Town of Mount Kisco

Wednesday December 19, 2007

Meeting called to order at 7:30 pm, Wednesday December 19, 2007, at the Municipal Building Mount Kisco, New York.

Members Present: Chairman Kevin Kelly

Nancy Abramson

Bruce Hartleben

Anne Houck

Members Absent: None

Staff Present: None

Staff Absent: Austin Cassidy

Minutes:

Chairman Kelly: Does someone wish to make a motion on the minutes for October 17, 2007?

Anne Houck: I motion that we accept the minutes from October 17, 2007 as presented.

Bruce Hartleben: Second.

Board All Ayes

Anne Houck: Aye on the motion.

Bruce Hartleben: Aye on the second.

Nancy Abramson: Aye

Chairman Kelly: Aye

Nancy Abramson: I motion that we accept the minutes of November 21, 2007 as presented.

Bruce Hartleben: Second.

Board All Ayes.

Nancy Abramson: Aye on the motion

Bruce Hartleben: Aye on the second

Anne Houck: Abstained

Chairman Kelly: Aye.

Returning Cases: None

New Cases:

Chairman Kelly: The first item on the agenda is the Boys and Girls Club Teen Center

1. Boys & Girls Club Teen Center Case #07-62

337 Main Street Signage

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

John Oliva, representing the applicant

John Oliva: Merry Christmas. What they would like to do at the center is that they have taken the second floor of the building above the cleaners. There is an existing electrical sign. That was used on the previous tenant. According to the proposed code the box will go away for that zone. That zone also requires that is can't be taller that 18 inches and it can't be taller than 16 feet to the top of the sign. So now we have an instant design. This is what we are left with and of course their logo and they are calling it a Teen Center. They said that they have been before this board awhile ago.

Nancy Abramson: Yes, for the dedication of the Dave Feldman Gym.

John Oliva: On one of the drawings I did show where it would go using the 16 foot height and the length is the same 120 inches. There is no lighting. If they do have lighting they will have to come back.

Bruce Hartleben: Is this the entrance?

John Oliva: This is the entrance on the side. There is no front entrance.

Anne Houck: They are not going to have any signage on the side?

John Oliva: No, but they did ask about lettering on the door. They want to put the logo and the hours. This is just one proposed sign in the existing space.

Bruce Hartleben: That is as high as it can go? I still have not read the proposed regulations.

Nancy Placona: 16 feet is the restriction.

John Oliva: I think it would look better if it were a little higher, if it was even with the bottom of the window. There are going to be cases like that where it is going to look a little off. Right now it is 17'.6” to the bottom. It is not much of a difference, and then the height is cut down so it looks a lot lower.

Anne Houck: Was there any thought given into placing it on the side of the building by the door?

John Oliva: I knew you would think of that.

Anne Houck: Was there discussion?

Chairman Kelly: It is screaming out to be there.

Nancy Abramson: You can't see it.

John Oliva: I think it would look good there, but it is the kind of thing you don't see it as much and from the other direction you would not see it at all.

Anne Houck: Coming from the hospital you would see it there very well, but coming from the other direction you would not see it at all.

John Oliva: I also think that there is a letter height with the new code proposal. I believe it is 9”. That actually works out.

Anne Houck: I motion that accept the proposal as presented.

Bruce Hartleben: Second.

Board All Ayes as presented.

Anne Houck: Aye, on the motion.

Bruce Hartleben: Aye, on the second.

Nancy Abramson: Aye.

Chairman Kelly: Aye

2. Subway Case #07-63

309 N. Bedford Rd Signage

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

John Oliva, representing the applicant

John Oliva: Subway has a color change. They are going green on their signs. We would like to put a new insert in the existing electrical sign. This is what it use to look like. This was the sketch and they are removing that, green white and yellow. I believe there is something in the new ordinance regarding letter height. I wasn't sure if it was that side of the road or the other like Blockbuster where you have a building setback. I think the maximum there is much greater. I think there was something about 16 inches for this location.

Chairman Kelly: They are reusing the existing box? Same location, same size?

John Oliva: Correct.

Anne Houck: It is set back?

Nancy Abramson: It is not over a ridge.

John Oliva: I believe it said back 50 feet. It said for locations between 75-150 feet.

Anne Houck: It is also a busy commercial zone.

John Oliva: Also the new ordinance is very liberal in this area. You have a maximum letterhead of 20 inches and I don't find that very forgiving for that building. It sounds like it would be for a bigger building like a strip mall.

Anne Houck: I move that we accept the Subway sign as it was presented.

Bruce Hartleben: Second.

Board All Ayes on the motion to approve.

Anne Houck: Aye, on the motion

Bruce Hartleben: Aye, on the second.

Nancy Abramson: Aye

Chairman Kelly: Aye.

3. 309 N. Bedford Road Case #07-64

Rear Bldg Directory Signage

309 N. Bedford Rd

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

John Oliva, representing the applicant

John Oliva: This actually has to do with the tenants in the back. The existing sign that is there now is illegal and it has been there for awhile. One of the persons wanted to put up a sign there that took over the car rental. Austin mentioned that the sign was illegal and that was the end of it. It seems that some of the tenants want more representation than others. Some don't care. I know that there are a few tenants back there. I looked on the property map to see the existing pole that is there and that it is within the property line and not impeding on parking spots. I don't know what it was maybe a light. I don't think it was a sign. That seemed like a good place to get some visibility for the tenants. There is a sign similar to this across the street. I think there is a spa there.

Nancy Abramson: It is Epidavoris and SoundView.

Anne Houck It is that area.

John Oliva: The existing sign that is there will go away and it is not even on their own property.

Chairman Kelly: This whole piece of property is a mismatch.

Anne Houck: This existing pole would come out and be replaced by this directory sign?

John Oliva: Yes.

Nancy Abramson: What is this? (Viewing of the photos)

John Oliva: That is a traffic pole. I am trying to use the existing white post and cut it down. There is also something about height.

Chairman Kelly: Tell us a little bit about the sign.

John Oliva: In terms of fabrication it is a cabinet and looks like this. In terms of color it is bronze and it will be a directory to show who is back there.

Nancy Abramson: How many people are back there?

John Oliva: There are four shops.

Nancy Abramson: There is the auto wholesaler.

John Oliva: There is the moving company, auto repair and two others that I am not quite sure what they do. There are only four businesses back there.

Anne Houck: This sign is essentially a directory for their tenants?

John Oliva: Not for the people in the front of the building. They have a number sign. I do want to talk with the landlord to see if we can do something at the same time and improve, but they are not listening. I know in the code there is a height issue and I know that this type of sign is allowed. I believe I am under the six feet. It is not that big. Does it mean in the future the other one is going to have to be 6 feet? The one that says 309? The other pole sign at the other end is taller than 6 feet.

Nancy Abramson: Is it taller than 6 feet?

John Oliva: Yes.

Nancy Placona: They would have to comply. We will be setting up a data base and all the signs will have to comply.

Chairman Kelly: Will this be lit?

John Oliva: No. It is all aluminum.

Chairman Kelly: Based on their survey it is on their property. On the assumption that the board approves this tonight, I think we should have a note on the approval that the other sign has to be removed by completion of the installation of the new signs.

Anne Houck: I motion that the sign at 309 N Bedford Rd be approved as presented with the condition of the removal of the existing directory sign.

Bruce Hartleben: Second

Board All Ayes on the motion.

Anne Houck: Aye, on the motion

Bruce Hartleben: Aye, on the second

Nancy Abramson: Aye.

Chairman Kelly: Aye.

4. Dunkin Donuts Case #07-66

176 N Bedford Rd Signage

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

James Lash, representing the applicant

James Lash: We have taken a picture of the old sign and we have removed Baskin & Robbins from the store. We want to change the face plate back to Dunkin Donuts only. Same sign boxes just removing Baskin & Robbins from the sign.

Nancy Abramson: This is not a drive thru?

James Lash: No. There are three signs on the property. One pylon that has two lenses back and front, and the one in front of the building.

Nancy Abramson: I remember that we just did this.

James Lash: About three years ago. When we put Baskin's in and remodeled. Now we are staring to do a lot more in the afternoon, like sandwiches and stuff. Dunkin has asked me to take Baskin out.

Nancy Abramson: They are no longer serving ice crème?

James Lash: No. We may go back to a soft serve under Dunkin's brand. They have been pulling Baskin's out in the New England and New York areas, because of size. They squeezed them all in and made us go crazy putting them in and now we are taking them out.

Anne Houck: How high is this pylon off the ground?

James Lash: I don't remember. I would have to measure.

Anne Houck: The reason I am asking is that you may have over heard that we are in the mist of a signage ordinance change in Mt Kisco. I don't think that this sign will meet the new ordinance.

James Lash: I think the bottom of the sign is probably 11-12 feet.

Anne Houck: That will not meet the requirements. We might be able to work on it.

James Lash: Smaller, higher?

Nancy Abramson: Smaller.

James Lash: Lower.

Nancy Abramson: There is going to be a period where everyone is going to transition. I think Anne was just letting you know that, if you wanted to think about lowering it now you could. Or you could put your new one in and when it gets passed and there will be a period of time that you will have to comply.

James Lash: Will the sign change or will you make it come down? Can I shorten the poles?

Nancy Abramson: That is all it would be.

James Lash: The square footage of the sign will not change?

Anne Houck: As long as it meets the code. It looks like the square footage would meet the proposed code.

Chairman Kelly: It looks like it would just have to be lowered.

James Lash; I believe it is bolted on. It looks like it could be cut down.

Nancy Abramson: You could do it now or not.

James Lash: The lenses have to be changed regardless. I will ask my sign man.

Nancy Abramson: You should check with Nancy so you can get the maximum height.

Anne Houck: Also to see how cost effective it would be for you to do it now.

Chairman Kelly: It looks like it is bolted down.

James Lash: It actually is and it is two poles and it could be dropped down and re-welded.

Nancy Placona: You can call me with the existing height and I can let you know how high it can be.

James Lash: I will measure it tomorrow.

Anne Houck: We are just trying to give people a heads up.

James Lash: That is fine.

Chairman Kelly: Under the assumption we are going to approve this tonight, how do we go about it?

Nancy Placona: You can approve his signage with the option to lower the height of the sign.

James Lash: We are going to have to do it anyway. It is just do I want to do it now. I don't know if it would be easier in the spring. It is easier to work in the spring. At some point it will have to be lowered.

Anne Houck: I move that we accept the Dunkin Donuts sign at 176 N. Bedford Rd as presented.

Bruce Hartleben: Second.

Board All Ayes, on the motion to approve.

Anne Houck: Aye on the motion

Bruce Hartleben: Aye on the second

Nancy Abramson: Aye

Chairman Kelly: Aye.

5. Quest Yoga Arts Case #07-67

11-13 Main Street Signage

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Susan Draper, applicant

Susan Draper: I opened this business in September. It was formally Sonic Yoga. They were there for two years. I am looking to get a sign in the window. We are on the second floor. Currently the only sign is on the glass door listing Quest Yoga Arts along with the photography studio, and the Karate studio. One of the things that makes it so difficult is the building is about 15 feet from the road. When you are standing at the curb it is difficult to see that glass door. In fact if you are standing straight on you would only see “ga Arts”, because the bicycle building juts out WE do get a lot of phone calls people looking for us and not knowing where our location is. We definitely need a sign. WE did measure the window and when I called I was told that down the road the recommendation would be 25% of the window. Although that was not the current situation I might as well go ahead and work with that. We did that and this is the width of each window. One would have the Quest Yoga. It would be the width of the window but the height would be 25%. The other window would have the logo and the phone number. If you are driving it is still is going to be difficult being that it is on the second floor. It is not that easy to look up being that it is very congested. For that reason we put in the packet a proposed sign for the post. The Karate Studio has the front. To conform to that and match what was there. We would make it look nice. I did a sign with the same measurements same height, width and this would be on the other side of the post.

Nancy Placona: Not to long ago the Boxing studio and the Karate Studio were before you and they have not made a decision as to what kind of signage they want to use.

Chairman Kelly: Talk to me again where the graphics of this is going.

Susan Draper: That was for the window. In the middle two windows.

Chairman Kelly: What about second floor signage?

Nancy Placona: You can't have it on the outside of the building.

Susan Draper: This would be on the inside the window.

Nancy Abramson: That is why she is doing the window because she can't put it on the outside of the building.

Nancy Placona: She can use the window but follow the guidelines of 25%.

Nancy Abramson: The problem is when you are on a second floor you can't put a sign on the second floor on the outside of the building.

Chairman Kelly: We have 25% coverage. We are looking for two graphics or signs upstairs and the one on the post. Do we take them individually or all as one?

Nancy Abramson: Let's start with the window.

Chairman Kelly: Any comments?

Bruce Hartleben: I think that the window sign is fine.

Anne Houck: I don't think that there is any other way to get a visible sign. In principle I have problems with it.

Chairman Kelly: My only concern is that you might not be able to read this graphic up there.

Susan Draper: At the end of October we printed “Quest Yoga Arts'” at Kinko's and stuck it in there. You can read it from the ground. It is not ideal and if you are in your car it is very hard to look up and be driving and read the sign up there.

Nancy Abramson: That comes with the territory when you are on a second floor.

Susan Draper: That is correct. It is better than nothing. It was something in the two years with the prior studio was there, over and over again it came up that people did not know where we are. I think that they did put a sign in one of the windows. They never had a nice sign properly made for the window.

Chairman Kelly: The second is the post sign.

Susan draper: When I met with my landlord he suggested that. As we were standing outside he said that you don't really see the glass door. The tile shop awning blocks the glass door entrance. His thought was to use the post. What I tried to do was to make it look fine next to the karate sign so that it was not something completely out of another realm.

Nancy Abramson: Your landlord is the tile store. The karate studio is the Indian restaurant?

Susan Draper: No his landlord is also the tile man. We are all in the same building.

Nancy Abramson: What about the chicken place? He is the tile man also?

Susan Draper: No, that is the building to the right.

Nancy Abramson: Can the tile guy give you the corner of his valance?

Susan Draper: We did not talk about that.

Nancy Abramson: I am just concerned as to how many signs we are accruing for the second floor.

Chairman Kelly: We were talking at one time sharing the sign of “Passage to India” with “PT Country Kitchen”.

Susan Draper: It is the tile shop and then Pt Country Kitchen and then the Passage to India.

Nancy Abramson: I confused it with the boxing place.

Nancy Placona: The boxing place shares the doorway in Passage to India.

Susan Draper: So this post that you are looking at is right next to Bicycle World. In fact you do not have this side because it is right next to the bicycle store.

Nancy Abramson: Does anyone recall that we did this karate studio?

Nancy Placona: That applicant is on hold because we do not know how the new guidelines are going to affect that second floor signage. Until a decision with the column sign, I put them on hold until we get a better idea of the guidelines that are coming forward. This is an applicant that did apply but they are on hold. This is a tough spot because the businesses that are on the second floor loose exposure. Not that you did not know that going into your business. That is the unfortunate part.

Susan Draper: It will be hard enough breaking even on the second floor. I would not be able to afford rent on the first floor.

Anne Houck: The karate sign is also under discussion as well. One option that might be considered is to have a sign for the karate and Quest Yoga on the face of the post

Chairman Kelly: Like a directory sign for everybody?

Anne Houck: So that it is more obvious directly on the street and combine both second floor businesses. The sign that they are currently occupying is not written in stone. We could discuss it for more visibility for you and them. It will not be as large but it would be a less cluttered façade which is our concern.

Nancy Abramson: We do not want to set a president where we start giving people the option to this on the front and this. That is the whole premise of a directory sign you can see who is in the building.

Anne Houck: The advantage for you is that it would be on the front of the building at grade level and directly out onto Main Street rather than under the awning.

Susan Draper: Yes it is only visible when you are walking toward the parking lot.

Anne Houck: Yes the posts block it.

Nancy Abramson: Are there other tenants on the second floor?

Susan Draper: There is one other tenant and that is the photographer.

Nancy Abramson: So is he going to come and say that he wants a sign.

Chairman Kelly: It would all have to be a part of this directory sign.

Anne Houck: I think that we are headed towards a directory sign.

Chairman Kelly: Unfortunately the tile store has monopolized that whole façade.

Nancy Abramson: They put that up without our approval.

Chairman Kelly: In the interest of the applicant we need to break this out.

We can do the windows tonight and give you the direction to go back to your landlord and the other tenants for a directory sign on the post that would include all second floor tenants. They would have to come back.

Nancy Placona: She can come back and if all the tenants are interested she can amend this application.

Susan Draper: What would be the size of the directory?

Nancy Placona: We can put this on hold until you have discussion with everyone.

Chairman Kelly: We don't want it any larger than what is there.

Susan Draper: Right now it is 14” by 50” high. That is not including the piece above it.

Nancy Abramson: We obviously want to make it so they all work together. They need to keep it the same color same background.

Susan Draper: WE can keep the black and white instead of introducing color.

Nancy Abramson: You could. What we are saying is that we do not want one person's directory being pink and another orange. We are looking for them to be uniform. Did you go to a sign person for this?

Susan Draper: I went to an advertising person that worked with a sign person. I am also working with a list of names staring in January within a five mile radius.

Chairman Kelly: Let's make a motion for the window signs. I think that we gave you some direction and what the board thinks as far as the directory sign.

Anne Houck: I move that the window signs on the second floor for “Quest Yoga Arts” be approved as presented, stipulating that they take up no more than 25% of the interior window space.

Nancy Abramson: Second.

Board All Ayes on the motion to approve.

Anne Houck: Aye on the motion

Nancy Abramson: Aye on the second.

Bruce Hartleben: Aye.

Chairman Kelly: Aye.

6. Neil Carnow Case #07-68

487 E. Main Street HVAC Units

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Neil and Ian Carnow representing the applicant

Ian Carnow: We are here for the 487 E. Main Street building. We are looking for an approval for a new HVAC unit on the roof. Would you like me to give a little history of the project?