ARB Minutes 4-18-07

Minutes

Architectural Review Board

Village/Town of Mount Kisco

Tuesday April 18, 2007

Meeting called to order at 7:30 pm, Wednesday April 18, 2007, at the Municipal Building Mount Kisco, New York.

Members Present: Chairwoman Nancy Abramson

Anne Houck

Kevin Kelly

Members Absent: Frank Tortorello

Staff Present: None

Staff Absent: Austin Cassidy

Chairwoman Abramson: Architectural Review Board of Mt. Kisco now comes to order 7:30 Pm April 18, 2007

Returning Cases:

77 S. Moger Ave

Mt. Kisco, New York 10549

Richard Alexander, representing Eduardo's

Richard Alexander: We are here tonight and I will submit some minimal changes. I am not sure as to how you will handle this. We are proposing two (2) signs this evening. One is the pole.

Chairwoman Abramson: I believe we said no to the pole. This is a non-issue.

Anne Houck: Going forward with the new sign code, pole signs will not be allowed in the downtown area. It will have to be taken down. Maybe you would entertain some landscaping in its place.

Rich Alexander: I explained that to my client. So if we got an approval on the pole sign this evening, I also told him that going forward when the new sign code is adopted that the pole sign would have to come down in 1-3 years.

Frank Tortorello: He was fine with that.

Chairwoman Abramson: He would want to use the existing pole?

Rich Alexander: Yes and at the bottom we would incorporate a planter to match the rest of his existing planters.

Chairwoman Abramson: With all due respect why does he need a pole, when he is going to have his awnings and a sign? I do not believe anyone is going have any difficulty finding this place.

Kevin Kelly: This sign pole is proposed to be 13 feet in height. This would even be higher than we would allow.

Chairwoman Abramson: I believe that we made it clear we would not allow the pole sign at all in this area. He is proposing adequate signage for this building.

Rich Alexander: Would you like to go through the entire presentation at this point?

Chairwoman Abramson: Sure.

Rich Alexander: The only thing that we changes was to re-center the oval so it would all be proportionate.

Kevin Kelly: These are the colors that you are proposing?

Rich Alexander: That burgundy on the chart. Then it would be vanilla or ivory and the material would be aluminum. The lettering would be vinyl hand painted.

Kevin Kelly: This is not lit?

Rich Alexander: No. We are proposing soft spot lighting from below.

Chairwoman Abramson: There is an awning that comes out? There is signage on that awning?

Rich Alexander: This elevation is incorrect. There is no signage on the awning.

Kevin Kelly: The awnings are already installed.

Rich Alexander: I believe so.

Kevin Kelly: Let's go back to the lighting. How are we going to put lighting on this?

Rich Alexander: It is going to be minimal housing. This is the side view. (Drawing on plans for illustration) Almost the sizing for a household spot.

Kevin Kelly: Is that part of the application?

Rich Alexander: Yes. Up lighting.

Chairwoman Abramson: What is currently on the Moger side? There is no lighting there?

Rich Alexander: I think this would be an incandescence look to get some up lighting on this. It would be off the road.

Chairwoman Abramson: What is on the front of the building? The sign is on the awning?

Rich Alexander: Not currently.

Kevin Kelly: The torn up awning you can't tell what is left there.

Nancy Placona: This photo was before the awning was torn down.

Chairwoman Abramson: I was there today and it looked like it was torn off the front.

Kevin Kelly: The applicant is not proposing any sign on the main street to the best of your knowledge.

Rich Alexander: To the best of my knowledge. I am only here regarding this and the pole sign.

Kevin Kelly: So you are here for 2 signs. The pole sign and a roof mounted sign.

Anne Houck: There would be a sign allowed on the Moger side. Even if the awning was replaced as is? If you chose to replace the Moger side awning you could have a sign also.

Chairwoman Abramson: Wouldn't this all look better if they matched?

Rich Alexander: My understanding is the awnings will be all black.

Chairwoman Abramson: The only signage will be off the main street?

Rich Alexander: That is the way I understand it. All black awnings and we were just going for these 2 signs.

Kevin Kelly: Part of this application is for a new black awning on the side elevation of this building, along with the sign that you are proposing tonight. Let the record know that the awning was installed without permission or approval. No graphics on windows.

Chairwoman Abramson: I am jus t concerned that is he decides to put a sign on the front he will have to come back.

Rich Alexander: Would you entertain this same design scaled down proportionately to the front façade? If it was the same proportionately?

Chairwoman Abramson: Up over above the awning?

Rich Alexander: Yes. If there is nothing on the awning.

Nancy Placona: That front faced will not be used as an entrance. Maybe that is why he did not propose a sign for that entrance.

Anne Hock: My memory was that we asked the owner to please bring materials to us with regards to the awnings and to reapply for the awnings. This application does not have any indication of the awning. It is not filled in at all. The awning proposal was denied last time.

Nancy Placona: It was not denied but he was asked to return.

Anne Houck: He was to bring sample materials.

Nancy Placona: That is when he left the meeting and returned with the sample material that he had pulled off his building. This application should reflect that awnings will be proposed.

Anne Houck: Again where is the material?

Nancy Placona: You can take a vote on the application before you and leave that portion open so that they can return to the next meeting with the materials.

Chairwoman Abramson: Moving forward. I drove by today and could not tell if there was new equipment going in on the roof. It just seemed very obvious that there was a large amount of new equipment.

Rich Alexander: I am not involved with that. This picture here is 2 days old.

Chairwoman Abramson: Is that his stuff and is it all new or is that pr-existing.

Nancy Placona: Are you able to compare with the photos that I gave you?

Anne Houck: Yes.

Rich Alexander: I think this is a bulk head from the building behind it.

Chairwoman Abramson: I cannot tell what was there and what is new. Quite frankly I would like to talk about the possibility of putting screening.

Kevin Kelly: Since the applicant himself is not here. The only things we can address tonight are the sign and ask the applicant to come back.

Nancy Placona: The applicant can come back for discussion on amending the application for the awning material, material for roof top screening, and photographs of the roof top equipment.

Chairwoman Abramson: Are we all on the same page?

Kevin Kelly: Ye we are all on the same page.

Chairwoman Abramson: Especially since this is the main entrance. When I drove by there today it appeared that more equipment was going up on the roof.

Nancy Placona: You can take care of the sign fees. We can send a letter to the applicant requesting their appearance for discussion and approval on the roof top equipment. It would also include their awning.

Anne Houck: I move that we accept the signage application for the main entrance to Eduardo's as presented. No approval for the pole. Including the up lighting. We request that the applicant return to the board for discussion of the awning material and screening for the roof top equipment on the roof.

Rich Alexander: On the question. Since we are not going with anything on the front. Would that have any weight on your possible reconsideration for this proposal?

Chairwoman Abramson: We would much rather work with you for something on the front. I do not think that you would have a problem with a front whether it is an awning, or create something special.

Kevin Kelly: We will need clarification. Right now there is a sign on the awning as far as we are concerned. If you look at the old photos there is a sign. He should tell us this will be removed, there is going to be new hear. It will be this color, we are removing this. Make it as detailed as possible.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Anne Houck: Aye

Kevin Kelly: Aye

Chairwoman Abramson: Aye

Board All Ayes: Approval for one sign as amended. This case will be returning.

209 Main Street

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Joseph Zoccali, applicant

Joseph Zoccali: My proposal is to change the siding because we did a pitch roof. We would like to side the whole building. I spoke with the building inspector and he suggested coming before your board. We want to change the siding from white to sand. We want to change the awning from green to black. The same style and fabric.

Kevin Kelly: The parfait will stay the same color?

Joseph Zoccali: That will remain black along with the shutters. The awning will remain fabric.

Chairwoman Abramson: Your sign will remain? You are putting up a new awning and it is going to say exactly what exists on it now? “The Pastry Corner” “Cakes for all occasions”. If you are putting up a new awning we would like to look at the copy. We are looking at like a sign. We are trying to move away from the excess copy.

Joseph Zoccali: The sign man can do anything that you want.

Chairwoman Abramson: Is this another sign?

Joseph Zoccali: This sign over here I removed since it had water damage. There is a sign on the side that says “Bakery” I am not sure if I am going to put that one back.

Chairwoman Abramson: This is a big corner.

Joseph Zoccali: My architect was the one that recommended this and it does look very elegant.

Kevin Kelly: We need to break this out into 2 applications. We need a yea or nay on the siding. So that project can be started and come back for the awnings and signage.

Joseph Zoccalli: I do not want to come back, you tell me what you want. I want this to be easy.

Chairwoman Abramson: I don't think it is appropriate to have two different signs that don't connect to each other.

Joseph Zoccali: The sign on the wall I might remove. I do not think that I am put it back.

Chairwoman Abramson: You are on a corner and are allowed 2 signs. We want you to think about what you want to do. We can't tell you not to put this sign here. You might want to put the Pastry Corner here (showing on plans) and put the pastry corner in the front with the telephone number in between.

Anne Houck: The Chairwoman is saying that we need to see the actual materials and a mock up of the sign.

Joseph Zoccali: I just wanted to see what you would think.

Chairwoman Abramson: We need to let you know that you can have 2 signs. We are fine with the color, so go for it. We want you to come back and show us what you want to do with the sign.

Joseph Zoccali: I will do the siding and get a price for the awning.

Kevin Kelly: You need to come back with the awning drawing first.

Joseph Zoccali: That is the drawing and the shape.

Chairwoman Abramson: You need to come back with the fabric, and show us what the sign or awning is going to look like. Either way this is something you have to do.

Joseph Zoccali: I do not want to come back before this board. I will not do any changes except to keep it black. Keep all the text.

Nancy Placona: He would be replacing the awning with the existing shape. The only change would be the color. You can dictate the text. It could just be the “Pastry Corner” and a phone number.

Kevin Kelly: Replace existing skin and replace the existing type face identical to what is there. Same font. It will say “The Pastry Corner” and at the front door

Chairwoman Abramson: The copy will be the same font, the letters to be white and same letter height. The Pastry Corner in the front with the phone number with no extra copy. Take down the side elevation sign “Bakery” and you can put up The Pastry Corner. You might want to make it a little smaller on the side elevation.

Joseph Zoccali: The Signman has a sign on the side of the building. Does he get to keep it? I want him to re-do the sign because it is big.

Nancy Placona: He would have to come back with application. Any change in the sign would require an appearance before your board.

Anne Houck: I move we allow the applicant to remove the existing sign with the following changes. From green to black same material. The copy is to be in the same font the letter height is to be the same, and the color is to stay white. The text is to read “The Pastry Corner” and has indicated placing the phone number in between. We have indicated to remove the “Bakery “sign on the side elevation and the applicant has agreed to do so. Also a motion for a change of materials and color to vinyl siding.

Kevin Kelly: Second.

Anne Houck: Aye

Kevin Kelly: Aye

Nancy Abramson: Aye

Board All Ayes to approve as amended.

55 Main Street

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Paul Maroni and Chris Hall representing the applicant

Paul Maroni: I have brought Mr. Hall with me since he is associated with Chase directly.

Chairwoman Abramson: Please walk us through your changes.

Paul Maroni: We have matched the color on the building to make it more palatable to the board. We would use the same size letters that we had proposed in the past. WE have changed the background so it will blend in with the architecture of the building.

Chairwoman Abramson: I know we have been through this several times. You just don't want to place the letters on the building?

Chris Hall: The problem is that you can see the pilasters that exist. WE used the pin to take in that on the architectural on the indoor count. There is only about 8 feet between those 2 pilasters. The standard letter size that we can get in between there is 12 inches. Chase has a problem with 12 inches because that existing pan is 28 inches. Twenty feet roughly from the building on grade. I believe it is 18 feet 4 inches. What we are coming back to you with is the pan again. Hopefully with the color to match the building so that is best architectural rendering we can come up with. Can you understand where we are here?

Kevin Kelly: I am just one vote here. I thought I was crystal clear as I possibly could be and respect to the building. Also with total consistency to your other building across the street, which we had the same concerns with. We managed to put the signage between the pilasters. If you refer to the pictures.

Paul Maroni: Those letters are on a metallic pan.

Chris Hall; It is also on a raceway.

Kevin Kelly: They are not covering over a pilaster correct?

Chris Hall: No.

Kevin Kelly: Your concern is that there is a pilaster. This is a much more upscale look with the individual letters than a raceway. I believe we had asked you to do an exploratory. At one point you said there was not the ability to put letters in that parfait the way it was. The sign can be in between the pilasters. There is a ton of signage that you are proposing for this building. Let's call this a corner building. Technically you would have two sides. The applicant is probably proposing 12-14 signs for this whole building. We are being as agreeable as possible. From awning signs, building sign, side sign, entry graphic sign, ATM sign. You have a wonderful layout of all the signs we are talking about doing. I am a little frustrated that we are back again and we still don't have what we thought we were going to do.

Chris Hall: We took that into account and we should you what the existing branch is, which is on a metallic pan. It is also on a raceway. We are proposing that pan. We are trying for a 2 ½ in projection with the channel letters mounted flush to that. Instead of a raceway which projects another 5 inches, we are only projecting 2 inches off the building, and we are going for a color that matched the building. We are suggesting that a 12 inch letter set at 20 feet high would be too small.

Chairwoman Abramson: I have to say in retrospect I am not crazy about the way that this came out. I do not like the raceway.

Kevin Kelly: We should go back and look at the original approvals.

Chairwoman Abramson: I do not recall a raceway.

Kevin Kelly: I thought it was just individual letters on the building. WE are getting side tracked.

Chairwoman Abramson: I truly believe that we approved individual channel letters for the other location.

Nancy Placona: I will pull the file and compare the approval to it.

Chairwoman Abramson: I am not adverse to this but what I would be more comfortable with is the material and how it matches the brick. The other one does not work.

Chris Hall: You would like a paint sample and material of the pan face.

Kevin Kelly: You want to match the brick.

Chris Hall That is our main concern also.

Chairwoman Abramson: Kevin are you open to that?

Kevin Kelly: I still prefer the channel letters. If you asked me to vote tonight I would say no to that. WE spent 2 long nights on this and we were very clear, and nobody seems to be listening. WE have commended you twice on your presentation. We could have been done with this the first night.

Chris Hall: I wished we had brought this to you also on the first night. I don't mean to sound disrespectful. We brought this to our engineers and the problem is that those 2 pilasters are to close together. WE have not been able to get around it, unless we go with the raceway.

Kevin Kelly: I will give you an example... (Showing plans) This could have been down there. It did not have to be at the top of the parfait. I am just using that as an example and that is just one side elevation. You were worried about it being 20 feet in the air, so if you place it here it will not be quite as high. You can also be creative.

Chris Hall: But not without a raceway.

Kevin Kelly: You could core drill it and it would work.

Chris Hall: From my understanding that would also have to be on a raceway.

Kevin Kelly: You could drill the letters right into the brick.

Anne Houck: What is the purpose of the two banks across the street from each other?

Chris Hall: One is personal banking and the other is commercial banking.

Chairwoman Abramson: Any comments? Would the board entertain this if they came back with the materials? I cannot tell you how we are going to vote. I don't want to bring them back if board is not going to consider it.

Anne Houck: Yes. With the matching it is an improvement but it is not what the board has requested. Having it lower down and smaller might be better. You do have a way to go. It is a very important building on a very busy intersection.

Chris Hall: I don't want you to think we are disrespecting the board. I want you to take into account all the possibilities.

Kevin Kelly: Here is a sample drawing that you could use.

Chairwoman Abramson: Thank you for coming and we will see you next month.

Paul Maroni: We are to bring you a sample of the aluminum pan and the color.

Kevin Kelly: Try to get as accurate color of the brick as possible. So we get a better understanding.

Chris Hall: We will take care of that.

360 N. Bedford Road

Mount Kisco, New York 10549

Joseph Lanza and Betsy Schmittdt, representing the applicant

Joseph Lanza: We had some challenges for getting approval and they were locations for 2 of the entrance signs and the installation of the main sign and the landscaping.

Betsy Schmittdt: Joe had a meeting with Austin. Austin made the recommendation and I don't know if he mentioned them to you.

Joseph Lanza: This is what they are. Basically instead of burying the sign the concern was the landscapers would hit it with the lawn mowers, and it may not be best for the sign. We agreed with that. It means putting in a foundation which we are showing here. We tried to show what would happen with landscaping around that sign.

Betsy Schmittdt: This is what it would look like with just the foundation. This shows the landscaping with some ivy and then some seasonal flowers.

Joseph Lanza: There was one other minor issue. Austin asked me to do another drawing to show another possibility. Instead of having such an angle on the sign, possibly to bring the angle in a bit. It would be a smaller foundation and cost the client a little less. It maybe less of a massive statement. This would be another option. Everything would be the same.

Kevin Kelly: I believe one of our concerns last month was actual location of the sign. We were unsure if they were in the town right of way or not. You have a survey? It was not in the packet.

Joseph Lanza: The location on this sign was not the issue; it was the foundation, base, and landscaping.

Kevin Kelly: It should be shown on the site plan. You are close to the edge and I want it shown clearly.

Anne Houck: Do you have a preference for the foundation?

Betsy Schmittdt: We are fine with either one.

Kevin Kelly: I believe the new proposal is better visible side for driving than the 45 width. You would see it better coming down the road. Easier to install and more cost effective.

Chairwoman Abramson: So we are going to go with option 2.

Betsy Schmittdt: This sign was originally located over here and we are now getting rid of that (viewing of plans). The new one would go over here. Austin want to make sure the property line was correct. As it turned out that we had to move back.

Kevin Kelly: Based on this meets and bounds survey neither one of them showed on your property.

Joseph Lanza: It was a matter whether it was on state property or city property. We do have to verify. This one he was not sure, we could not locate...

Kevin Kelly: This was done by an architect and not a surveyor you may be doing yourself a disservice by using this. Just by eye it cuts right through the middle. The concern would be whether it is on your property. The second question is and what the access agreement to Foxwood and the access to this building here. This appears not to be on your property either.

Betsy Schmittdt: What they had to do and what we had to do was an agreement as to the reference for the turn for our property and we have to indicate.

Kevin Kelly: Do we need special permission for a community sign or whatever.

Nancy Placona; There would have to be a property owner agreement of some sort.

Anne Houck: What is the status of that agreement?

Betsy Schmittdt: What we wanted to do was the first step for Joe to meet with Austin to see what the situation was. Then to come up with a way to comply with the agreement and that the agreement was stable, which we have. If it is something that we feel could go forward we would then go back to Staples.

Joseph Lanza: One of the agreements from 1989-1990 where the Zoning Board stood and one of the issues was for Blockbusters and Staples they wanted to show on the directional property signs. That you would have to go across to Staples.

Kevin Kelly: You need to assure this board that this and this are not in a state or town easement. This really doesn't tell us. This one also appears not to be on your property.

Joseph Lanza: It is existing and we are replacing it.

Kevin Kelly: I think this board needs some documentation that you have a permit or an agreement with Staples to have sign on their property.

Betsy Schmittdt: These are the signs that we have there now. What we are looking to do is clean them up.

Chairwoman Abramson: We need to make sure that this goes into the record that we have approved them. Austin will have to take a look and make sure that they are ok.

Joseph Lanza: We do not have a problem with that and I am not sure as to how to get that information.

Kevin Kelly: This one appears to be on your property. This one is moving to your property so that is a non-issue. The second sign will also be a non-issue. We need something in our vote tonight stating that these need to be verified and there is permission from the other land owner.

Chairwoman Abramson: The village needs to know the location of the signs and we were hoping to see a survey this evening.

Betsy Schmittdt: That is why Austin had us move it over here so that we would be on our property line.

Joseph Lanza: The south sign if approved is a one sided sign.

Chairwoman Abramson: Let's look at what you need from us.

Kevin Kelly: That is where we were headed last time was more verification of location.

Betsy Schmittdt: So could we hypothetically get an approval.

Kevin Kelly: We would like to vote on all of it this evening given the fact that we get all the documentation for the village.

Anne Houck: We will also need the agreements between the property owners.

Kevin Kelly: The north sign is number 1 and the south sign is number 2. Then the 3^rd sign is the monument sign. Sign number 4 is the directional sign on the south side. Number 5 is the north directional sign

Chairwoman Abramson: Number 2 south entrance needs verification. Number 5 needs verification.

Kevin Kelly: I motion to appr