ZBA minutes 5-15-07

MOUNT KISCO ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS

Minutes

May 15, 2007 7:45 PM

Mount Kisco Village Hall

Members Present: Donald Rose

Robert Marino

Michael Zucker

Harold Boxer

Staff Present: Austin Cassidy

Karen Schleimer

Donald Rose: Good evening ladies and gentlemen. We will call to order the May 15, 2007 Zoning Board of Appeals for Mount Kisco. We are short one member right now, so we can't approve the minutes of March 20, 2007 until that member arrives. So we will move right ahead with the first new case.

New Case:

Marty Weldon

49 Turner Lane

Application #ZB A07-01

Present: Mr. Peter Kurth, Architect

Mr. Marty Weldon

Ms. Mary Ann Lascerbo

Mr. Mark Maffia, 33 Turner Lane

Mr. Glen Davis, 41 Turner Lane

Donald Rose: Let me just quickly for the record review the details of the denial. You asked for a building permit for the construction of a new two-story addition to an existing detached garage. The permit was denied based on the following facts:

1. The subject party is located in the RS-12 Low Density Single Family Zoning District.

2. Section 110-31-G (4) of the Code of the Village of Mount Kisco requires that an accessory detached garage will not exceed 15 feet in height. Both the existing garage and the proposed addition will have an average building height of 21 feet.

3. Section 110-31-G (5) of the Code of the Village of Mount Kisco requires that an accessory detached garage will not exceed 750 square feet in coverage. The existing garage is approximately 990 square feet in coverage without the proposed addition of approximately 790 square feet of new coverage.

4. It is acknowledged that the garage and the residence as well as other buildings nearby are buildings were formally part of a much greater farm like estate in the past. The existing “garage” formerly a livestock barn, is therefore a legal non-complying building, in that its present height and physical size is greater than presently allowed prior to the being any addition to its size.

5. Section 110-35-D of the code of the Village/Town of Mount Kisco prohibits the enlargement of any legal non-complying building wherein the enlargement would either increase or create new non-conformities or increase its area.

Based on those facts the building permit was denied. I'd invite any of you, then, to present your case.

Peter Kurth: We brought some photos and some visual aids. Of course you have plans on file. As you mentioned, the barn as we call it was built in 1990 and was part of this much bigger estate. And, the present house; which is right on the road, basically, was built in 1932. This is a relatively small house that has no basement at all. It's a slab on grade, and no usable attic space for storage. The Weldon's contemplated what to do with this structure. I feel that it has aesthetic and historic value, and it should be at least preserved; certainly not torn down. The present dilemma the Weldon's have is that it's in such poor shape. As you can see from some of the inside photos… I had an engineer look at it. I didn't recommend that they even store cars in there.

Donald Rose: This is the existing barn?

Peter Kurth: This is the existing barn.

Donald Rose: Dating to?

Peter Kurth: 1919. So clearly this is not a case, when the…were created; we wouldn't be here if we were building the structure as an accessory structure. What we're hoping the board would consider is allowing us to improve, repair, renovate and expand the building to accommodate a usable two-car garage as well as a small room upstairs for exercise and the room above the garage for pure storage. We tried to aesthetically relate to the imagery of the old-fashioned barns when the hoist came out; we have these doors so that, Mr. Weldon, for storage that would normally be in a basement or an attic could be hoisted up there and stored above the garage. It is our intent to make clear from the drawings, to keep the stonework, the windows and basically just slice the old roof off, which is rotted and dilapidated, and start building from there. I want to emphasize that this historic structure is way back from the road. You can barely see it. You will notice on the plan, to keep the rural feeling of this property, we propose just the opposite of an asphalt big driveway going up there. We are proposing grass pavers. So, in effect, when someone looks from the road, they are not going to be seeing a driveway, they are going to be seeing grass. In effect, the driveway will be mowed just like the lawn. We feel it's a hardship for several reasons. The alternative would be to tear the building down; we'd have to come before the board, as I understand it, just too even improve it; rebuild it, or add a two or three car garage right near the house, accessful to the house. It should be noted that this is not logical in terms of the flow of the house, because when you enter from a garage into a house, you want to be near the kitchen or a mud room; the kitchen is on this side of the house. With the driveway here, putting in a garage here creates a very awkward flow. It's a bedroom. You're not going to have a garage next to a bedroom. The Weldon's have four cars. Currently they are basically stored, stacked up right on the driveway. If we were granted this variance, all the cars would be housed two cars here two cars here, with a safe and rebuilt structure.

Austin Cassidy: I apologize. Just for the audio record, all cars are being housed here and here (directed to the plans)

Peter Kurth: I'm sorry. In the existing garage, which would be structurally made sound, and we're proposing to add two new bays here.

Austin Cassidy: Again, for the audio record, where is here?

Peter Kurth: To the right of the garage.

Donald Rose: The entrance to the present structure is where?

Peter Kurth: That would come up and around like this. And again, we thought it was very important not to make this look like a series of driveways. With these pavers, they are pervious, they are treated like lawn, not asphalt, and we feel that it looks very good. This would, from here back, look just like a lawn, and you wouldn't have the congestion of the cars parked all over the road. Again, I mentioned storage. Their house is a slab on grade. They have no basement whatsoever.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Actually we have a very small basement. It has a washer and dryer and that's about it.

Peter Kurth: And the attic is not even usable.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: There is no attic.

Peter Kurth: I want to make one point in terms if the board would consider our request. As far as the height goes; I put a piece of tape, the inspector was correct when we looked at average heights. We're six feet over our allowance. I don't think that includes cupolas; but I think it is ridgelines. If the board would prefer, where that tape line is, we could just slice off; re-establish the ridge line right above the dormers. As an architect I don't think it would be as aesthetic in terms of the angles of the rooms, etc., but if the height factor would be a detriment to them getting approval, or making it usable, I think they would be willing to do that.

Marty Weldon: It's like four feet higher than what is there now.

Peter Kurth: We are effectively going about 3 ½ feet above the current ridge line.

Marty Weldon: That would give them an idea.

Donald Rose: Just for clarification, let me ask the building inspector. What is meant by average building height?

Austin Cassidy: Building height is taken on a pitched roof between… eaves, a 93 plum line down to average finished grade.

Peter Kurth: This is the side view. The grade back in here is about five feet against the earth. So what we're talking abut is the average, this plus this; so it's kind of like built into the hillside. It was actually rather creatively done for it's time when it was built. So again our options are tear it down and built a contemporary garage on the street, or work in character with this garage and make it structurally sound, make it usable, and in my opinion, more aesthetic. I want to emphasize that all of the setback lines required by zoning are met with the new design. So it's strictly the square footage over the 750. And again, it's not your average accessory building. It's modification to I think, a beautiful, historic building. I think these buildings should be saved and not torn down.

Donald Rose: Just let me note for the audio record that Robert Marino has joined the hearing and we now have all four current members of the board.

Robert Marino: And happy to be here.

Donald Rose: We are still short our desired quota of five, but we do have everyone hear.

Peter Kurth: I brought pictures of the surrounding homes. You will see there are two story homes, and some substantial homes in this area are quite common, if that is helpful.

Donald Rose: That is just a satellite image?

Peter Kurth: Yes, they can do that now with global. This is the barn.

Donald Rose: I think the primary questions for the floor are; is this addition really necessary, because clearly from the view of the property there is ample room to build a garage structure or some other auxiliary structure.

Peter Kurth: You are absolutely right, because we felt that having one enhanced aesthetic structure versus two; one new and one dilapidated would be a positive statement for the Weldon's and the surrounding homeowners.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: We like the barn. We love it. We want to keep it. The way it is, it won't last.

Peter Kurth: They would have to probably do what I said anyway, rip this whole thing off. All this is rotted. When I had the engineer over…

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Right now it's just the tresses that were built by another carpenter just to keep the roof above us without falling through.

Robert Marino: You may have already dealt with this, but when was the original barn built?

Peter Kurth: The barn was built in 1919, sir. It was part of the original Hamilton Estate. It was at that point one house and this barn on that property. Then it was subdivided. You can see from the aerial map and you can see the vicinity, this is the barn, this is the house. All of this is one ownership, and then they subdivided it.

Robert Marino: This is the barn as it is?

Peter Kurth: Yes. This is the side that you can see from the street. This is the side looking this way. You can see the actual entrance to the garage was this way; maybe from this street or something. But that made no sense because it was subdivided.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Most visitors who come to our house don't even know the barn belongs to us because it is so far set back.

Michael Zucker: If the barn were in good condition right now, it would store two cars?

Peter Kurth: Yes.

Michael Zucker: What is the square footage of that?

Peter Kurth: The entire structure is 990 square feet, so it's bigger. But the way you see it here, sir, if they get two cars in here the garage door doesn't work. It was purely meant to be maybe a tractor or something was to come in there.

Donald Rose: Did it have doors in the opposite end as well?

Peter Kurth: Yes, it had a swing door, but not of a size that would allow any vehicle; maybe a small tractor to come in. But to answer your question, this here is the 900 sq ft the white here.

Michael Zucker: Okay. And there is only one garage door now to get into that?

Donald Rose: Because it wasn't built as a garage; it was a farm structure built as a barn of some sort.

Michael Zucker: Is it stone on the other side as well?

Peter Kurth: It's just a shed door.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: The stone is only on two sides.

Peter Kurth: It's stucco on block.

Marty Weldon: It's stone, but they filled it in.

Peter Kurth: It is stone, but it's not as nice of a pattern to it.

Michael Zucker: And the dimensions we're talking about?

Peter Kurth: The existing entrance is right here.

Michael Zucker: No, the dimensions; the distance from here to here.

Peter Kurth: I would say that's roughly 30 by 36.

Michael Zucker: Thank you.

Donald Rose: Yes, because this full dimension is 37 for the proposed addition, that's a little bit less.

Michael Zucker: But existing is 30 by 36.

Peter Kurth: Yes. Well, it equals the 990.

Donald Rose: 1080 overall; something like that. It appears offhand what you're adding could be converted into an apartment.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: That's not our purpose.

Peter Kurth: I think they would put a stipulation in their deed to that effect if the board would approve. There is no kitchen. I think it's basically; Marty likes to wash his cars all year round. It's like a powder room; there is no shower.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: There is no kitchen going in. If anything it's going to have exercise equipment.

Peter Kurth: This is clearly not a sneak-in an apartment type thing here.

Austin Cassidy: Just for the record, what utilities are in the building at the present time?

Peter Kurth: Just electric, right?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: No, nothing.

Austin Cassidy: Anything in the proposal?

Peter Kurth: We're going to bring electric, like a sub-panel up there, and gas.

Marty Weldon: Gas or oil.

Peter Kurth: You have gas in the street?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: No, we have oil.

Peter Kurth: Put an oil tank in there, maybe.

Marty Weldon: Or propane.

Peter Kurth: You don't need much. It's only for the heating element and the hot water.

Austin Cassidy: Will the whole building be conditioned for heat or just the two spaces.

Peter Kurth: Just upstairs.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Just this part.

Peter Kurth: This existing is unheated; this whole thing would be unheated, maybe in the powder room an electric space heater.

Donald Rose: The powder room would be on the first floor?

Peter Kurth: Yes, right behind the garage.

Donald Rose: So that space presumably would be heated.

Peter Kurth: Yes. We were going to heat this area per se, but just the powder room itself. Marty likes to work with tools; he's got a little slop sink here in addition to a regular powder room sink, where you could actually clean your cars in all year round.

Donald Rose: It's a perplexing one in a way. What is the acreage on the property now?

Marty Weldon: 1.1.

Donald Rose: And what is the road frontage?

Peter Kurth: I did bring the survey. I would estimate about 180 feet.

Donald Rose: It's a very deep property. I don't believe there is enough road frontage for a subdivision, is there?

Austin Cassidy: Is there any benefiting easement that goes to that existing paved driveway way in the back there, in the drawing?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: There is no paved driveway.

Donald Rose: On the drawing it outlines an existing driveway.

Marty Weldon: That went to the house. This was paved and it went to this house.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: That was paved and went to the other house.

Austin Cassidy: Is there an easement in place?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: No.

Donald Rose: There is not. You presently have no vehicular access without going across the lawn.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Exactly. And the lawn remained lawn so it doesn't look like a highway in our backyard.

Peter Kurth: I'm increasingly recommending to clients; it's not as cheap as compared to blacktop, but in a case like this when you want a rural pasture setting, it just looks like grass from a distance. You can't tell the difference. It takes the weight of a car. It's pervious, so there is no run-off, and whenever I can convince the client to go for the money, but to me this was a logical kind of a solution.

Donald Rose: Are these prefabricated, concrete?

Peter Kurth: Yes they are like honeycombed blocks that get set in, rough filled and then top soiled and seed.

Donald Rose: And there is about a four or six inch opening? It has to be narrow enough so that a tire can…

Peter Kurth: Yes. There are several different manufacturers.

Austin Cassidy: So, it's the tufts of grass that one sees?

Peter Kurth: All grass.

Marty Weldon: The new way they do it is, it's plastic and it looks like tic tack toe boards.

Peter Kurth: If you look at it really close after its cut you would see a pattern, but from a distance, when the grass gets to an inch and a half, you don't see it.

Austin Cassidy: The type you're describing you do not see at all.

Marty Weldon: Because I love cutting grass.

Peter Kurth: And he's got the tractor for it.

Donald Rose: Obviously, those are aesthetic decisions that have no bearing on the variance for this board.

Peter Kurth: We think you'd want to look at the whole package.

Donald Rose: We always like to see attention paid to the aesthetics for this type of proposed construction. Isn't it the reality if you're taking the roof off of that, you're really not left with much of the original structure.

Peter Kurth: We would keep the foundation; of course, there would be no disturbance to the excavation. We would keep the beautiful stone walls and the windows.

Donald Rose: Is that just a dirt floor on the inside?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: It's concrete. There is also a pit in it. I guess they used to fix cars in there.

Peter Kurth: We propose to close it up, because it is more of an annoyance than anything else.

Donald Rose: Was that built with an actual foundation, can you tell, or is that just a wall?

Peter Kurth: It's tough to say when you're building. I think it looks very well built, concerning the dilapidated condition of the wood in the truss. There are no cracks in the masonry at all, especially since it's built into the hillside. I've seen no evidence of distress. While I haven't honestly probed, I assume it's got a frost free foundation.

Donald Rose: Have you gotten any reaction from the neighbors?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Actually, one of my neighbors is here, oh, two.

Donald Rose: If you'd like to comment on this application, please come forward and take a look at the plans.

Mark Maffia: I live in the house behind… that would look down at that. Turner Lane goes up a hill. My deck is about two stories above their garage, and I look down at it. And if it's going to be something like this… when I first heard about it, somebody said they are putting in apartment up there, and I wouldn't want it for noise and stuff, but if it just going to be something like that I don't have any objection to it.

Donald Rose: And you're at 33 Turner?

Mark Maffia: Yes. The street goes around.

Donald Rose: So the numbers actually decrease as you go in from Croton Avenue?

Mark Maffia: Yes, so I am directly behind them.

Glen Davis: I'm at 41 Turner, which is located pretty much between the house and the existing garage.

TOO MANY PEOPLE TALKING AT ONCE

Glen Davis: What was a concern to me but now that I've heard about these pavers, I won't be seeing a long driveway cutting across. I like looking out into their beautiful grass. Actually having a garage there, I won't be seeing their cars parked out on the side of their house because they are on my side of the house. So, I have no objections to this change. I think it looks beautiful and I think it would add to what my view of their property is.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: So all that work on the lawn really pays off.

Donald Rose: Is this your house; the next one up there? This is Turner Lane?

Glen Davis: This is 49.

Mark Maffia: I'm behind here. I'm like up here.

Peter Kurth: He might be this house or this house.

Marty Weldon: When I'm standing here, I look up and his deck is right there.

Michael Zucker: I guess my concern is we're being asked to give a variance for a very large increase in space, and the space that exists now clearly could accommodate, if it could be laid out in such a way, three cars.

Peter Kurth: Only two, the way it is laid out.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: But right now what is in there is a very large tractor.

Peter Kurth: It's not an ideal shape for three. Even though it is almost analogous if it were 20 x 20 it would be for two cars, because the shape. A three car garage is more elongated than deep.

Michael Zucker: Okay, two cars with very nice storage area, and then if there were a way of just completing an attic area for that, again, we're talking about almost 1,000 square feet of storage. If you complete an attic right over that without the need for adding much, much more square footage. It's a non-conforming use already. That is a concern.

Donald Rose: That is the crux of the problem.

Michael Zucker: We're being asked to grant a pretty large variance here.

Peter Kurth: Again, it's not your typical accessory structure is the point we want to emphasize. Because of the historic nature and because of the way the property evolved.

Donald Rose: It's an old structure. I don't know whether that makes it necessarily historic. Especially with the roof coming off, what we were saying earlier, you'd really be keeping the walls. Are you planning on …you would be modifying the entrance on the side of the existing, I assume?

Peter Kurth: What we're doing is this opening would connect the old to the new.

Donald Rose: But the garage entrance? There would be no change?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: There would be no change.

Peter Kurth: And again, to keep the character of the existing building; the only way, I think, Marty you could get a car in there would be to angle one; I don't know if you could even do it with that door.

Marty Weldon: You'd have to angle it.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Right, and right now there is a tractor in there. How big is your tractor?

Marty Weldon: It's a utility tractor.

Donald Rose: Right, but you were talking about putting two cars in there.

Peter Kurth: I think the intent was one isn't used a lot.

Marty Weldon: I've been waiting a long time to buy an antique car to go to the oldies. I said I'm not going to buy it until I have a garage somewhere to keep it.

Michael Zucker: Would a variance be required to just remodel the existing building without adding any additional space to it, if you wanted?

Austin Cassidy: If you're not making it any bigger, no.

Peter Kurth: But if you're adding an attic above that.

Donald Rose: And just to move along on that idea… why don't you as the architect take us through that? If we asked what would be required to turn that existing structure without expanding the area.

Peter Kurth: Same footprint.

Donald Rose: Same footprint. What would be required to make that as usable garage structure as possible.

Austin Cassidy: Same shell, for that matter.

Peter Kurth: I'd think we'd certainly have to get rid of the old doors and put two garage doors, close in the pit, and then if we were allowed to have that attic storage, we'd have to have some sort of stairing up there. They were looking for something more than just a pull-down.

Marty Weldon: Then you'd have to knock this out?

Peter Kurth: Yes, you would have to knock the stone out.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: We don't want to change the look of what's there at all. We just want to improve it.

Donald Rose: Alternatively you'd be looking at knocking down, looking at the front elevation of the total structure, let's say if you were dealing with only this, the alternative would then be to start knocking holes in this wall and changing the entire appearance.

Peter Kurth: The Weldon's always felt strongly… when you're dealing with this rebel wall, I don't know if you could surgically cut opening without demolishing the wall. So that's why we feel this is a good solution because we kind of encapsulate or preserve the existing structure, and then with the addition, made that the usable annex. The wall is definitely sound, but when you start punching holes and doors, the whole thing could fall apart.

Donald Rose: Let me ask the building inspector; are there cases in the town where original structures that are large enough have been converted illegally into auxiliary apartments? We have to worry not only about what your good intentions are, but the future owner.

Austin Cassidy: Not in a scenario like this one. There are existing residences that are large enough that may have been single family that are covertly converted to a two-family within the existing walls.

Peter Kurth: But if it's stipulated in the Deed that goes with the property, clearly if a future buyer down the road were to attempt to do something illegal, which would be I guess to add a kitchen to make it a dwelling, they'd be accountable to the Building Inspector.

Austin Cassidy: Not only that… let's recap if I may. You're introducing electric to the building; you're introducing fuel for heat at some point. Are you introducing water, did I understand that?

Peter Kurth: Yes. There is a sink and toilet.

Donald Rose: There would be a powder room created and as I see it a closet space in the powder room that could probably be turned into a shower by someone who is so inclined. Is there septic on this property, or is there a sewer?

Mary Ann Lascerbo: Sewer.

Peter Kurth: I think everything would tie into the sewer.

Michael Zucker: One possibility is to say no water.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: The other thing. If Marty works up at the barn; he's working on a car, then he has to walk all the way down to the house to clean his hands or to wash, and his other idea was to be able to clean his vehicles inside the new building in the winter, so he doesn't have to be out, and it's heated. And you can use the water within the barn.

Michael Zucker: Sounds nice.

Donald Rose: Again, for the building inspector, who may have a better idea of what happens in the town, we don't know what someone might try illegally with or without the deed restrictions.

Peter Kurth: Is a dwelling unit defined by the kitchen unit?

Austin Cassidy: It's a critical element. It used to be a pivotal element, but now with the alternatives available with cooking these days, you can have all kinds of tabletop cooking that can be stored in the closet, and so we're paying more attention to a feature that can't quickly go away, like a bathroom. I was just trying to think creatively here if there is any way, and I don't know the answer… if there's any way, if this were distant enough from the public water line that you could have some kind of grade water system or something like that back there into a drywall. I don't know. I don't know what the health department would say. Say if you had a simple water line going or a septic or a sewer line coming back for a utility bathroom, hand wash only, not a john or anything.

Peter Kurth: And have bottled water for drinking. If you're working out, exercising, you have bottled water.

Michael Zucker: You don't want to drink Mount Kisco water.

Mary Ann Lascerbo: No I don't. I haven't drunk water from any faucet in over twenty years.